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The Contradictions of Abraham Lincoln.

The Contradictions of Abraham Lincoln.
The following show us almost two different Lincolns. It has always been my stance that Lincoln was no abolitionist. He had no issue with slavery. His aim was to save the Union at any cost. If that meant ending slavery, then so be it.
After all, he did sign the Emancipation Proclamation. Perhaps "Honest Abe" had a 'come to Jesus' moment.

Perhaps it simply shows how one can evolve....or does a cynic say, it shows how a politician changes his stance on a whim?

Here we go:

August 24, 1855: Letter to Joshua F. Speed.

(The American or "Know Nothing Party" was an anti-immigrant political party of the 1850's.)

"I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we begin by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty-to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." [sic].


But then, three years later:

In 1858, Lincoln challenged U.S. Senator and leading Democrat Stephen A. Douglas for his seat. The two candidates engaged in a series of seven debates across Illinois. In the sixth debate, held in Quincy on October 13, 1858, Lincoln responded to Douglas’s assertion that Lincoln saw no “distinction between races.” Printed in the Chicago Daily Press and Tribune on October 15, 1858, Lincoln replied:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Source: The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum

So the ball in now in your court. I look forward to reading your comments.
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When people say "these were different times" I’m never sure if they’re trying to dismiss the egregiousness of what was done or said. If so, it could be used to dismiss how people were treated during other atrocities like the Holocaust, yet it never is.

I’ve really never seen Lincoln as particularly a hero to my "kind", even though the teachers of my childhood said as much.
He even said that if he could keep the country united without ending slavery, he’d do that.

Besides, even if Lincoln did personally think slavery was wrong, but that black people were inferior to whites, that’s hardly an outdated attitude.

I’d venture to say there are plenty of folks, even in the White House, who believe that today. 😔
JSul3 · 70-79
@bijouxbroussard No argument from me.
DarthInvader · 36-40, M
@JSul3 I apologize if I seemed a bit agitated.
JSul3 · 70-79
@DarthInvader No problem.
We're good.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
It is well-known that Lincoln was anti-slavery but at the same time did not consider Blacks to be the equal of Whites. In his mind they were two different questions. Should human beings be enslaved? No. Are all races equal? No. It was probably not an unusual attitude for his time; I'd think many Whites back then felt slavery should be abolished, but at the same time did not feel Blacks were their intellectual/social equals.
RedBaron · M
@ChipmunkErnie OK. How would you explain the difference between the denial of the humanity of a race of people and believing that races are not equal?

I’ll wait.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@RedBaron Keep waiting since you obviously didn't understand what I've said repeatedly: one POV was that slavery should not exist; even if Black were "inferior" they were still human beings who deserved their freedom. The other POV was slavery should exist and Black were more than just inferior, they were not even judged as human and slavery was not only natural but Bible-approved. Is that clear yet???
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dancingtongue · 80-89, M
Lincoln was a masterful, pragmatic politician. Politician in the sense of politics being the art of making the possible happen vs. the ideological dog whistling hypocrites that turn everybody off these days. Read Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team Of Rivals to appreciate his ability to build consensus and lead.
degraded · 22-25, F
What contradictions? Pragmatism does not make him a liar. Ideologues like you would not understand.

US was torn apart by emancipation. Southerners relied on slavery. Hundreds of thousands of men died in battle. Lincoln has earned title of abolitionist.
JSul3 · 70-79
@degraded Lincoln never claimed to be an abolitionist.

Abolitionists advocated for the complete and immediate end to slavery, a goal that went beyond Lincoln's political platform.

Lincoln simply didn't think slavery should be expanded.

That's a big difference.
RedBaron · M
It has always been my stance that Lincoln was no abolitionist

It was a documented fact long before you were even born, never mind when it became your “stance.”

It wasn’t your original idea. You should acknowledge and cite your sources.
JSul3 · 70-79
@RedBaron Many think that because Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, that he was anti-slavery. I've seen and read many that believe that.

That's why I made my comment.
degraded · 22-25, F
@JSul3 If nearly destroying your nation to end slavery does not make you anti-slavery, what does?

Lincoln’s assassin, John Wilkes Booth, called him a tyrant before pulling the trigger. Booth’s sympathies were with the South. Upon shooting Lincoln, he shouted “Sic semper tyrannis!” and “the South is avenged!”
JSul3 · 70-79
@degraded Lincoln was not an abolitionist. He did not wish to see slavery expanded, but he did not believe in totally ending it.
kittee · 22-25
it was a different time,
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degraded · 22-25, F
@Diotrephes This is not true.
JSul3 · 70-79
@Diotrephes Not quite.
Lincoln would not have deported all enslaved people, but he did advocate for a voluntary "colonization" of freed slaves to countries like Liberia or Central America. This was a widely supported idea at the time, but Lincoln viewed it as a voluntary process, believing the newly freed people should have the choice to leave the U.S. to find political rights that he feared might not be guaranteed at home. He also believed that colonization could help America transition away from its biracial future without fully confronting the implications of racial integration.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@JSul3 John Wilkes Booth should be a hero to all Black Americans because, without him, there wouldn't be any.

 
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