I'm curious to know, people who oppose the COVID vaccine. Are you only opposed to this specific vaccine? Or do you not believe in vaccination at all?

No, it wasn’t. @pdockal

@pdockal
[quote]it was rushed[/quote]

I think it's easy to see it that way but let me offer you a different perspective.

If you order over night shipping on an Amazon package, is the package delivered unsafely? Is the delivery man weaving in and out of traffic and speeding down the road to deliver it to you?
No.
The package is prioritized, not rushed.

Same thing with these vaccines.
This is what happens when resources are all directed at a singular goal.
When other projects are put on the back burner.
When people from different countries and companies pool their research and effort to the same end.
This is what science can accomplish when it is focused to a laser point.

Another important thing to understand is that typically vaccines trials take much longer because you need volunteers to study. You need to reach sufficient numbers so that you can achieve meaningful results and that can take months or even years....but with this pandemic, with hundreds of thousands of people getting sick very quickly there were thousands of people volunteering either out of altruism or out of fear and as such the testing proceeded far faster than usual.

I hope this helps explain the difference between this vaccine being rushed and being [i]expedited[/i].

@pdockal If you're opposed to a hard mandate, I might not necessarily agree, but I can understand and I can sympathize. A vaccine mandate is pretty hardcore and I get why people disapprove.

As for it being rushed, it had more funding and more personnel than ever before, and you'd be surprised how quickly some of the most effective vaccines were developed.

@Pikachu not at all ... a package is NOT my body AND they have been shipping for decades ... you can be the test subject NOT ME ... I've had covid already

@BlueMetalChick just because you throw lots of money and people at a problem doesn't mean you come up with the solution any faster
I don't get the flu shot
I don't get the pneumonia shot
I don't get the shingles shot
I don't get the tetanus shot just in case (I get it after I get cut)


I'm first responder so I have a little more insite then most

As for trusting ANYTHING coming from THIS administration I'll pass


Didn't the government say the air around ground zero was safe

Has the FDA ever made a mistake and approved bed things for you to ingest only to remove them from the list

Has the EPA done the same

Look at ALL the drug recalls recently

Cocaine was originally in coke a cola

Shall I continue

] [quote] a package is NOT my body][/quote]
And nobody said it was. That wasn’t even close to the point of that analogy.

@AbbySvenz then what was the fucking point ... they have been delivering packages for decades and I'm sure that when the postal service was first invented things were lost and people didn't trust them ... has any package ever been lost ... why do you need insurance on packages ... just in case they are lost ...

@pdockal Oh, you're a first responder now? A few comments ago you were a construction worker.

This vaccine wasn't developed by the current administration. So unless you distrust everything from both Biden AND Trump, you swung and missed again.

Although...to be fair, both Biden and Trump are colossal fucking liars only looking for make money so I really couldn't blame you if you actually felt that way.

[quote]Didn't the government say the air around ground zero was safe[/quote]
The government did, yeah, but no scientific institution of any kind said that. Everybody in every facet of the scientific community said it was extremely dangerous.

[quote]Cocaine was originally in coke a cola[/quote]
That's [i]Coca-Cola[/i] because it contains extract from the [i]coca[/i] plant. Sorry, I know that's petty, but shit like that bothers me.

If you ask me, you should still be allowed to buy Coke with actual cocaine in it. There's no reason cocaine should be illegal.

All of this is irrelevant though. The point here is that messenger RNA has been well understood for longer than you've even been alive, and it's been used for at least twenty five years now in human applications. The concept of inoculation against diseases is centuries old. It's been nothing but a resounding success. Granted, that's mostly been traditional "null sample" vaccines, the kind you've already expressed that you aren't opposed to or skeptical of, so I'll give you that. But using mRNA to prevent illness or to cure medical problems has been around for a lot longer than most people realize; it was just never talked about because the science behind it isn't flashy and exciting and it doesn't make for good headlines and pop culture obsession.

@BlueMetalChick
so I can't be in construction and also a first responder ?????

I'M NOT GOING TO DEBATE TRUMP VS BIDEN but there was NO mandate under the previous administration

I don't take meds in general

My doctor tried to get me to take flu shot and I refused

Didn't I say that about the original coke a cola ... it doesn't use the original formula and I'm not talking about when the changed it and then brought back old coke

@pdockal Did you go to public school in the USA?

@pdockal So, what, you work at the fire department by day and then moonlight as a concrete worker or something?

Guy, again, it's spelled [i]Coca-Cola.[/i]

I really don't see what any of this has to do with the topic of conversation.

@BlueMetalChick [quote]I really don't see what any of this has to do with the topic of conversation.[/quote]
Here's how the "logic" works: once upon a time, 1 scientist got something wrong. Therefore, by the theorem of collective guilt by association, all scientists from all times can't be trusted to open a pickle jar.

Meanwhile, Trump - who lied an average of 18 times per day throughout his presidency - is the most trustworthy human on earth.

@BlueMetalChick
I was showing you that items have been approved until they were deemed harmful
Food has been recalled
Drugs have been recalled
Products have been recalled
Money hasn't cured cancer
Money hasn't cured AIDS

IT'S MY BODY AND I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE IT AS I SEE FIT

@ElwoodBlues what the fuck does that have to do with anything ?????

@pdockal You shouldn't be allowed to use your body to drive drunk. And similarly you shouldn't be allowed to use it to shed virus wherever you go.

You are like a vegan. You've made a choice that leads to a certain level of inconvenience in our society. We don't all bend over backwards to accomodate vegans - they have to make do. And we won't bend over to accomodate anti-vaxxers.

@ElwoodBlues so there haven't been any drug recalls ?????
So there haven't been food additives that were originally approved

@pdockal There are no risk free paths in life. There's enough data out there to say the vaccine is far safer than the virus. Here's some:

@ElwoodBlues I usually don't stoop to name calling but you deserve it

What the fuck do vegans have to do with this
They can eat what ever the fuck they want

What the fuck does drinking and diving have to do with this

What does risk have to do with this except that I'm not risking my body

I've had covid already

What percentage of infected die ?

@ElwoodBlues

@pdockal Some choices in our society lead to inconvenience - such as choosing not to be vaccinated. I'm sorry you couldn't understand the analogy to veganism; it's a good one.

You said you could do what you want with your body. That's false. You can't drive drunk on public roads. Also you can't go around shedding virus. I'm sorry you couldn't understand the analogy to drunk driving; it's a good one.

I notice you avoided answering about public school. I asked because every US kid in public school has to take two doses of MMR and 5 doses of DTaP/Tdap vaccine. On the other hand, if you were home-schooled, that would explain a lot.

@ElwoodBlues I wasn't home schooled

Your full of yourself ... good analogs
You stuck on drinking and driving aren't you

Yes those are choices but NOT mandates

I wear helmet but it shouldn't be a law

I wear seat belt but it shouldn't be a law

You never answered ...
what percentage of infected die

What percentage of infected aren't reported

@pdockal Well then I guess you must also not eat any food or drink any beverage that you didn't produce yourself, right? How can you be certain that anything in the grocery store or at the restaurant isn't going to be recalled tomorrow morning?

And you must produce your own clothing too I suppose. I mean, you can risk buying it from a brand that makes it because maybe you'll flip on the telly and find that the fabric it's made out of us actually carcinogenic.

I'd assume you also make all your own soaps and shampoos. No yelling how many brands of shower gel or toothpaste the FDA has approved despite it being harmful to your health.

You're lucky enough to live near a source of fresh water too, right? I mean there's no way you can trust the tap water in your house. It could be laced with hydrogen cyanide or something.

@BlueMetalChick
well I filter my water
And I soften my water
I don't usually try anything that is newly discovered until it's been proven safe
Never used illegal drugs (except pot)
I do have a garden but not a farm where I can produce live livestock to eat
I've had to be careful with food due to allergies
ONLY TAKE MEDICATIONS WHEN I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE
Don't even take asprin
I try to find natural foods etc etc