so if Transgender people say the same stuff i do..

@val70 so you replied to this thread just to say you will not bother with this thread. Why even comment in the first place?

@Torsten Just trying to figure out your sweet self. In my long experience (yes, I do know transgender people and a few friends as well) there's often a reason for the guy with the blowhorn

@val70 what do you mean? blowhorn?

@Torsten He means you, announcing to the world that trans people aren't real men or women.

@LordShadowfire i just explained that in more detail in another reply to you, so wont again even if its directed towards another person.
I am just saying what the majority of people already know. I am not saying it in a hateful way though and that is what gets twisted a lot

@Torsten [quote]I am just saying what the majority of people already know.[/quote]

@LordShadowfire that isnt going off a popular idea. Its going off common knowledge that the majority of people dont ignore

@Torsten *says it's not a popular idea*

*says it's a popular idea, but phrases it differently*

@LordShadowfire because its not a idea. Its a fact

@Torsten He said with no evidence.

@LordShadowfire where is the evidence to show that you can magically just change your gender? not live as the opposite gender but actually change it to make you a real woman or man instead of your biological gender?

@Torsten So, again, you are conflating gender with sex. They are two different things. Sex refers to the physical traits. This has been explained to you by numerous people on this website.

@LordShadowfire in your mind they are two different things. I dont feel that way

@Torsten Okay, you asked for it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8909483/

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00376.2005

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/what-do-we-mean-by-sex-and-gender/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s12276-019-0341-0

@LordShadowfire ok had a bit of a read of some and its clear I am not wrong. Sorry but if you are going to split the two as being different, one is based on biology and the other is feelings. I dont acknowledge feelings when it comes to this. Physical is the only thing that matters when on the subject we are on.
That determines biology, chromosomes and so on, things that determine real genders. Feelings play no part here when talking about real genders/sex

@Torsten [quote]...one is based on biology and the other is feelings.[/quote]
Not quite. It's actually more about brain structure.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139786/#:~:text=Regarding%20grey%20matter%2C%20the%20main,the%20anterior%20hypothalamus%20(INAH3).

@LordShadowfire i get that and that is where trans people come in. I am not trying to sound like a dick or anything when i say "real gender". If a trans person was said "real gender" they would not need to transition.
They transition to feel on the outside, how they feel on the inside. I have nothing against that and respect those brave enough to do that. But they will never be the biological gender or sex however you want to say it, that they are living as.
Its as simple as that really.
I dont like that people are just expected to ignore biology to please a very small minority feelings. I also say that knowing full well, many transgender people know and acknowledge, they are not "real men or women" that they now identify as but still acknowldege them as their biological gender but are now living as the opposite gender.
I really dont understand why others try arguing against this so much.
Its not being hateful to acknowledge reality. Its being hateful to not accept them as they identify within reason of course like trans species or trans age thing people claim now, but im sure you get the point

@Torsten [quote]i get that and that is where trans people come in. I am not trying to sound like a dick or anything when i say "real gender".[/quote]
That's why I use the medically and scientifically accurate term "sex" to refer to the physical, and that's why people argue with you on it.

[quote]trans species or trans age[/quote]
Don't get me started on that silliness.

@LordShadowfire people can argue with me about it all they like. It will achieve nothing though. I will never change my thoughts on this as i dont expect others too. It is what it is and life is too short to spend it by letting different opinions get to you

at least we have some common ground here with that trans species and trans age nonsense

@Torsten My point was that if we use the word sex, rather than gender, to discuss the physical limitations these folks deal with, it's more accurate, and fewer people will assume you're being a Nazi about it. 😆

@LordShadowfire again i can see where you are coming from. Its your beliefs, so when i say gender, you think of it as inaccurate.
when i say gender though, it fits due to my beliefs. So there is a clear divide here but we know what the other is referring too.
I see it as people now splitting the two as a attempt to make sex (i will say that, due to your wording on it) a thing that you can just switch and there for makes biology irrelevant.
that is how i see it. To me sex and gender will always be the same thing. There is however gender dysmorphia which disrupts that and makes the person feel they are the opposite "sex", so they live as the desired "sex" but are not biologically it and never will be.

A better way to put it. I see biology as the main thing here. When I say "real man/woman" i am saying biological man/woman.
Nobody can change their biology.

I have a feeling i will have that Nazi label attached to me online here no matter what anyway 😆

@Torsten [quote]I see it as people now splitting the two as a attempt to make sex (i will say that, due to your wording on it) a thing that you can just switch and therefore makes biology irrelevant.[/quote]
Fixed your spelling. Nothing personal, just a little OCD on my end. I know English isn't your first language.

So, for guys like us, it's a lot harder to separate sex and gender. We were born male, and we still identify as male. We're men, and we [i]feel[/i] like men. But for someone with dysmorphia, it's just not that simple. Remember my analogy from before? Having your brain swapped as an infant with that of a baby girl? You would grow up feeling like a man, but with female physical traits. That is the closest you or I can get to understanding how these folks feel. It's very real to them, so it's not so much that they want to make biology irrelevant as they feel biology has turned against them.

[quote]A better way to put it. I see biology as the main thing here. When I say "real man/woman" i am saying biological man/woman.[/quote]
And I can find that away for future reference, but some people just won't be able to see past that.

@LordShadowfire autocorrect sucks on my laptop. If i dont check it before i post comments I end up having a lot of spelling mistakes. I dont take it personal when people point out spelling mistakes, just dont be a dick about it is all haha

I have no doubt what you said is true. It is much easier on the outside looking in and we will never really know what they go through, because will never experience it first hand.
I wasnt lying when i said i have a good mate who is trans.
I known her since i first moved to the country I am in now as a kid. Though never knew she was trans till about maybe 15 years ago.
I have seen and listened to her one what she goes through and again seen it first hand, like most of her family cutting her off and shit like that.
Its a big reason I have a lot of respect towards people who do transition to make them happy and feel like themselves. But none of that takes away my other thoughts and while they might sound hateful, I dont mean it that way towards trans people in general.
I have said it many times that I take a lot more issue with the activists and those who try speaking for trans people yet dont really listen to them and instead try making their own views onto the trans community as if its what all trans people think when its not the case. It just makes trans people look bad.
but there are some trans people i dislike for sure. Those who go in womens professional sports leagues and those who rape women, get locked up and come out as trans to get put in a womens prison. Granted i dont believe those people are even really trans in the first place and instead just capitalizing on a broken law system
every day normal trans people, I wish them nothing but the best lives

@LordShadowfire [quote]Having your brain swapped as an infant with that of a baby girl? You would grow up feeling like a man, but with female physical traits[/quote]

What are you saying here, there is a 'male brain' and a 'female brain'?

@helsbels he cant reply to this now. He blocked me 😄