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Shootings in the U.S

It definitely seems to be the case that most, if not all, of the people responsible for mass shootings in the U.S are young men. Inevitably people always question "why" and "how" and try to devise of ways to stop it, with the most common suggestion being stricter gun laws. I can see some merit in that, but I don't think it is the answer. The first things that come to my mind when I think of this issue are the variables involved, of which there are many. I think of the people who have committed these shootings and what personally lead them to do that. It is impossible not to notice the patterns and commonalities which almost always seem to be present.

The most significant components seem to be an overwhelming dissatisfaction with everything and complete disdain for the rest of society.

These individuals have *probably* been bullied throughout their middle and high school years, or have at the very least been social outcasts. They may lack a good network of people to set them on the right path, or don't feel that they can tell anyone about their problems and even harbor feelings of animosity toward those closest to them. It seems they don't seek out proper relations with people, or don't utilize the relationships they do have to become better and more balanced individuals. In addition, they lack direction in life and likely don't have any ambitions or plans for their future. They have clearly come to see other people as worthless, and life as meaningless.

Also, from what I have read, the use of SSRI medication on adolescents seems to come with a risk of psychosis and can lead to violent behaviours.

I don't think there is an easy answer, and some of the things that I think would help contradict other ideas that I have about society and how kids should be able to function in school life. I have contemplated that kids should be encouraged to be more open and inclusive toward peers that don't necessarily fit in. However, this idea is impractical and I think that in many ways, the sooner we adjust to not always fitting in and being "liked" the better. Ultimately, these things can and should be used to make you a stronger and more resilient person. You shouldn't try to be liked by everyone and even if you're not friends with many (or perhaps any) people, you should persevere and focus on the things that you enjoy and that you want to do with your life. At the same time though, we should want to seek out relations with people we want to get to know more and feel we have something in common with. The way these young men could help themselves would be by trying to relate to other people and looking at the world around them, instead of focusing almost entirely on themselves and the way they feel. It's great to look inside oneself and to consider one's wishes when it is a matter of positive growth and development, but continually feeling sorry for yourself and blaming other people is a horrible and deeply unhelpful trait. These shooters seem to possess all the worst characteristics of teenage and adolescent angst and have manifested them in the most destructive and deadly way.

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Subsumedpat · 36-40, M

It is more of a psychological factor than it is a gun problem, there have been guns since the beginning of the nation and we did not used to do this. I think with everyone's face glued to a screen of some type instead of getting out and living life we breed defective young people. When I was a kid it was go go go, always out playing games, climbing trees, taking on some kind of juvenile challenge. People are not making anything of themselves then blame it on society. As such they get no attention but they watch the news and see the whole country obsess over a shooting and think, yea I could do that then everyone would pay attention to me. I think if we had compulsory service at 18 for everyone we would have less of this and people would make more of themselves.

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SinlessOnslaught · 26-30, M

@Subsumedpat Why not?

SW-User

@dancingtongue Fair enough. I understand what you're saying and appreciate the perspective of someone who has actually served in the military.

I think what can be agreed upon is that there is no one way to fix the problem, and that a lot of things really could and should be improved in society. Legislative action can only do so much and in this instance, I don't think it would make any real difference.

Subsumedpat · 36-40, M

@SinlessOnslaught same reason they won't do what they are supposed to now, that is the whole thing about the military things are not optional.

Dainbramadge · 56-60, M

They are not normal people.
A normal person would never do such a thing.
These broken individuals see the act repeated on television and it gives them the idea to also do it themselves.
It's the copycat culture and personality disorders aligned.
If the media would stop glamorizing these incidences it would cut down on these type of things happening so often.

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SinlessOnslaught · 26-30, M

@Thevy29 Holy shit that's such an un-PC joke. 😂

carpediem · 61-69, M

@Dainbramadge I agree. The copycat culture is a contributing factor. Not sure what twisted the minds of these killers. But so many things in society are becoming normal when they were once seen as mental illness.

On top of all that, there seems to be an organized effort to release criminals in some sort of an "equity" play. Little or no bail, quick release, no cost for committing a crime. And some criminals are lauded as folk heroes. George Floyd comes to mind.

Criminals become heroes and we wonder why twisted individuals act out.

SW-User

@SinlessOnslaught That's southpark for you lol 😂 I love that show

Dlrannie · 31-35, F

The solution to the problem is quite simple - strict gun control

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RedBaron · M

@Dlrannie No it isn't. People like that are not concerned with laws and rules, and they would just get guns on the black market. Making something illegal doesn't make it disappear. See Prohibition and marijuana laws.

SW-User

@RedBaron Agreed.

AwakeningConfession221122

@Dlrannie

Adogslife · 61-69, M

It’s primarily disenfranchised young white males. Perhaps they’ve realized that their white privilege card has expired.

More mothers work than decades ago. More homes lack a father figure to use as an example. Schools fear being sued, so punishments no longer exist outside the home. Teachers have been emasculated. Kids spend way too much time on the internet and gaming versus social interaction outside with real people.

All are factors BEFORE appropriate gun control laws. Ease of obtaining a semiautomatic weapon needs to be harder, NOT disallowed.

Example: I have a driver’s license. It does not allow me to operate a motorcycle nor does it allow me to drive a semi/tractor trailer. Those require different licensing because they require different skills.

Simply grandfather in current owners and make ownership in the future dependent on age and demonstrated skill. If you bring the age of ownership past the primary age of risk, you better society’s odds.

SW-User

@Adogslife There is no such thing as "white privilege" lol.

I agree with your comment about how things have changed at home though. Single parent families are far more prevalent and more mothers are working demanding jobs, which isn't necessarily a good thing for society or indeed for their own families.

Anon066 · 31-35, M

@SW-User i don't think it's correct to say there's no such as white privilege, but i strongly agree it doesn't exist in the way it's discussed now. All demographics come with privileges, whether it's white or black, man or woman, gay or straight etc. And while those are the traits people use to assign privilege they're very far from the most important. Wealth privilege is by far the most impactful. Attractiveness, intelligence, a strong family, health etc are all drastically larger variables. John mcwhorter once pointed out he thinks having bad acne would be more of a disadvantage than being black, which i thought was a good example. Race is a tiny factor when it comes to privilege.

CopperCicada · M

I once knew a mass shooter. He turned up at my work and hung out in the lounge of the building where I worked at the time. He would drop into my lab when I was working at night. He was friendly, but it was clear that he was angry and mentally disordered. His questions about what I was doing-- and I always welcome that-- made no sense, and were connected with other meta cultural issues. The things he was mad about.

I was repelled by him. He had that vibe. He never did anything that warranted calling law enforcement. At some point I asked him to leave me alone so that I could work. Which he gladly did. Apparently without drama.

A few months later he would shoot six people.

It has always haunted me as many people, including myself, had walked away from him. Or even pushed him away. Even ran from him. His social media contained various manifestos and rants. That is our innate tendency, to stay the fuck away from disordered, especially angry, people. We are trained to do that. But I have

to think that's the exactly wrong thing to do. These people need people walk towards them. Make a point of being in their circles, their worlds. Watching, listening. Challenging, counselling.

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CopperCicada · M

@CountScrofula Well. We have no communities anymore and anyone who shows kindness to an outsider is a treasonous traitor. So there's that.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@CopperCicada Yeah. There's that.

CestManan · 46-50, F

@CopperCicada Our society encourages division which sucks.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

So I think blaming individuals for just being failures isn't gonna fix much. So they need to man up and not be alienated jerks, now what?

I think rather we want to look at what any human needs to be a happy productive person, and if they had that community structure.

Did they have a community who looked out for them? Did they have a way to contribute and feel valued? Were their needs being met?

The answer as far as I can tell is no, and that people who are alienated, isolated, suicidal, and highly resentful of what they view as a society that's left them behind are gonna lash out. This is also specifically American and male. AFAIK all of them had pretty horrible ideas about women as well, and early childhood trauma. Mass shootings are basically a form of suicide by cop and they all do this -expecting- to die.

When people talk about 'good old days' of America one of the things that -did- exist was a sense of community. The notion that the neighbours talk to each other and look out for one another. We're herd animals. Nobody succeeds on their own.

It's a cop out just to say they're bad people. Of course they are but everyone is "that way" for a reason. The reasons are what matter.

SW-User

@CountScrofula The suicide factor is important. Yes, some of these shooters are caught alive or abandon plans to commit suicide at the last minute, but most at least start out as suicide with the intent of “taking others with them”.

The problem is that our society is especially alienating. It’s hyper-individualistic, sense of community is often weak. Mass shootings don’t happen at the same rate in every country, so there must be aspects of American society that lead to their frequency.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

@SW-User Yeah exactly.

Canada is the most similar country to the US and although we have had mass shootings they are extremely rare compared to the states, even factoring in population.

CestManan · 46-50, F

@CountScrofula

people who are alienated, isolated, suicidal, and highly resentful of what they view as a society that's left them behind are gonna lash out. This is also specifically American and male.

Well yeah cause the world does not care about men to begin with.

For the rest of that, it's completely true. If someone is basically being told "take a hike" then they have no real reason to behave.

wildbill83 · 41-45, M

what do people expect when we have a society that punishes nationalism & patriotism; and rewards lawlessness and narcissism? 🤔

it's pretty ignorant to encourage immorality, then act surprised when someone does something evil...

JesseInTX · 51-55, M

I can’t speak for the entire country but only my city and state. When I was in high school there was at least 100 trucks and vehicles in the school parking lot with at least one long gun and some with two or more. Shotguns and rifles, hundreds of rounds of ammunition. I had a gun rack on the back window of my truck, like many others did. Never once did a shooting happen at school. Fights? Yes. Meet outside, throw hands, one wins and one loses, then we get in our vehicles and head out with our long guns and go hunting with friends/family. This is not a gun problem it’s a people problem.

Granted this is 1984-1988 and we didn’t have virtual reality, online gaming, smart phones, etc. We were outside, playing, riding bikes, cruising in vehicles, listening to 8 tracks and cassettes. Times are different, people are different.

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carpediem · 61-69, M

@JesseInTX It’s sad. Some fucked up people out there.

JesseInTX · 51-55, M

@carpediem bit goes back to what we’ve said. It’s not the gun it’s person who holds it. Or something I’ve said that isn’t politically correct

It isn’t the arrow it’s the Indian

carpediem · 61-69, M

@JesseInTX Exactly. But that truth doesn’t fit the narrative

Carazaa · F

We need more love in the world! Many don’t have fathers in the home and have little good guidance! And many are influenced by racism, and far right fascist hate! That and easy access to guns is a big problem! Also other rich western countries have longer vacation days with their families every year, less work stress which helps their kids, and less racism. I think there needs to be an anti racism campaign in the USA that encourages loving our neighbors!

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Anon066 · 31-35, M

@Carazaa anti racism is just racism lol.

Carazaa · F

@SW-User You have got to be kidding!

SW-User

@Carazaa Uh, no.

Do you even know what far-right means?

SinlessOnslaught · 26-30, M

I've suspected that it might have to do with the lack of encouragement of rough play. Kids are encouraged to sit at a desk and do paperwork in front of a teacher who immediately intervenes if any violence occurs. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm saying boys never get to see violence, never recognize that it hurts people, and don't value the weight of it. So they become violent as adults.

Applepiedom · 56-60, M

Very well put. Guns don't do crimes people do. Bad guys will always have guns so now you're wanting to take from good guys.

SW-User

@Applepiedom I agree. Actually banning guns would make it much more difficult if not impossible for well-meaning people to defend themselves when they really need to. It's so overlooked but there's a lot of cases in the U.S where guns have saved people's lives (home invasions, attempted robberies, attempted assaults, etc.) or prevented some form of harm being inflicted on them.

Nonetheless, it's always a tragedy when innocent people get killed because of the actions of one person who has given in to their worst impulses.

Applepiedom · 56-60, M

@SW-User I'm old so this may sound that way. They used to say what kept Russia from attacking was not knowing where and who had the guns.
First thing Hitler did was take away guns from the people.
Police in England didn't carry guns because no one else had them....
Taking guns away is like blaming spoons for making us fat.....

Anon066 · 31-35, M

@SW-User yep, defensive use of guns drastically outweigh offensive uses every year.

Ingwe · F

It's a lack of proper parenting and decent examples from society

we create the monsters

BigGuy2 · 26-30, M

@Ingwe ... or a VICTIM that's been Bullied SO MUCH, that they snap and then shoot up the school, a school that will NEVER believe the victim, but will ALWAYS believe the Bully ... because if they believe the victim, that means they have to deal with the Bully, or accept that they have failed as a school in protecting victims from Bullies

HannibalMontanimal · 26-30, M

I don't have friends. I was bullied in high school and middle school. I don't go around killing people. I'm still expected to go to work everyday and pay bills regardless of my mental health..

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HannibalMontanimal · 26-30, M

@SW-User Is that an excuse for killing people though ? Because I'm pretty sure everyone was bullied at one point in their lives so I don't see how that makes it okay to go around shooting people

SW-User

@HannibalMontanimal I very strongly believe it's not an excuse because people should take responsibility for themselves and not be brought down by bullying to the extent they lose their empathy for all other people.

Bullying is a contributing factor, but not an excuse.

dancingtongue · 80-89, M

There is one commonality you left out: their use of social media. It is the first thing the police do AFTER they go on a rampage -- search social media for their manifestos or other statements. I am not suggesting the police surveil social media, or social media censor, more than the both already do. I am suggesting that the trolls and others who make a game of belittling people and calling them names are most likely as least as big a factor as violent video games. It magnifies their already sociopathic views of the world,

SW-User

@dancingtongue There's literally nothing that can be done about this component, though. Mass shooters do seem to have engaged with social media to the degree that they've used it to express their very negative perception of the world, but to state the obvious this isn't what causes them to go out and kill people. I would say there is a lot of negativity presented in the media overall and that this is of more significance than them having a social media account. These accounts only matter after the fact, when the police use them to gather evidence. Access to social media doesn't make someone more likely to commit a mass shooting, although it could magnify things they already perceive to be problems in their lives.

Btw, I'm aware that some of these individuals make it quite obvious what their views are and that these views are often sociopathic in nature, but I'm against police surveillance into online activity because it would be more harmful than beneficial most of the time. The most reasonable compromise seems to be that parents pay more attention to what their children are posting online, even when they are no longer children. I get that this is difficult to do sometimes but it doesn't hurt to show an interest or at least try to ascertain what kind of things your child may be doing online.

Interestingly there's especially been a sharp rise in mass shootings since 2020, and it seems evident increasing political and societal division in the U.S is contributing to the problem.

dancingtongue · 80-89, M

@SW-User

Interestingly there's especially been a sharp rise in mass shootings since 2020, and it seems evident increasing political and societal division in the U.S is contributing to the problem.

And that the social media algorithms are designed to increase these divisions and conflict. I agree, that it is only one of many media influences that feed their sociopathic behavior, but social media does tend to magnify it. Particularly the trolls constantly feeding the paranoias.

SW-User

@dancingtongue I can agree with that.

DownTheStreet · 56-60, M

While movies, shows, video games glorify violence and make killing into games, the family unit is no longer promoted, faith based moral compasses are ridiculed, the mid and older generations are blamed for everything, youth is taught the climate change and capitalism have made all their futures bleak, and social media magnifies and polarizes. Our leaders further divide. Education system doesn’t teach critical thinking, it instead tells you what to think and it’s one version of the truth. Surprised some people snap and take it out on society?

SW-User

@DownTheStreet I agree with everything you've said here, although I wouldn't place much emphasis on violence in video games and so on.

DownTheStreet · 56-60, M

@SW-User I think everything bundles up

Virgo79 · 61-69, M

Medications could be a big factor.
But looking at the timeline dicipline in the school system is another factor i.m.p

CestManan · 46-50, F

People debate non stop about the reasons for mass shootings.
What causes it, how to stop it, etc.

You need to realize that the elite wants us to kill ourselves off. They do not care about us. They already own most of the wealth, they have no use for us. We are just a drain on their resources.

Some people think the elite somehow need us to keep making them rich. Nope, we are just a liability to them at this point. If we were all gone, then they would own 100% of the wealth instead of just 95% or however much.

luv2fish · 70-79, M

Looking into the past of each of the mass shooters, you'll find they were all bullied, teased, made fun of and abused. That is the one common factor. Not the guns. The guns just gave them an opportunity to be the "one in control" and no one could bully him or her.

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Roundandroundwego · 61-69

@luv2fish only the ones with a gun. But don't try to slow the shooting! It's madness. You need guns. You have guns, by God you always want guns, nobody wants to stop you!!!!

Carazaa · F

@luv2fish
Only in the USA does this happen on a daily basis because of
1. Few vacations for parents to spend time with their families
2. A huge country where the grandparents live in another state like Florida and kids own machine guns
3 No mass transit so young 18 year old kids have to buy a car to work, the stress is overwhelming
4. Easy access to guns

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

@Carazaa yes! Forever gun guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns guns. No life, cars, oil guns.

msros · F

Too many loonies running wild.

chrisCA · M

@msros True, but other countries make it more difficult for the loonies to access guns.

Anon066 · 31-35, M

@chrisCA how? By being small island countries that don't have a permeable border with a country partially run by drug cartels? By not having a quarter of the guns in the world owned by private citizens? By not being the biggest drug market in the world?

The whole "if we did what countries did it'd fix the problem" is such a low iq child's way of thinking lol.

HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M

There is no easy answer as this is a mental health issue.

The vast majority of shootings occur with illegal weapons used for criminal activity, i.e., drug and gang violence.

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CopperCicada · M

@HoraceGreenley

HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M

@CopperCicada I had no idea there were so many gun suicides. Thanks dude

Adogslife · 61-69, M

@CopperCicada Yes, 54% cause their own demise, but aren’t we talking about laws to save the other 46%?

Any progress there matters no matter how small. You could easily restrict access to the assault rifles and still allow them to exist. You simply increase the age requirement for ownership and require special licensing and training to obtain it. That’s a win win.

Both sides can win this and have fewer gun deaths.

alan20 · M

Adolescence is a very turbulent time for males. I think the most society can do is to stand back and show a non-judgemental sympathy. If guns are not readily available and part of the culture as they are in the US but not here in the UK, there will be far fewer instances of social shootings.

Zonuss · 41-45, M

@alan20 And more stabbings and bombs 💣. 🤔

FreestyleArt · 31-35, M

Some of these Young people are being influenced by Politicians. That way Politicians can bail them out and do it all over again until their demands are met to destory Our Second Amendment rights to protect ourselves.

TexChik · F

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

I think a lot of what you say here is dead on 100%. I don't know anything about SSRIs, so I can't comment on that part of your post, but clearly most of these guys had been loaners, many of whom had been bullied.

I wouldn't give up on teaching kids to be more accepting. Bullying is a problem with middle and high school aged kids. And it is the beginning of ostracizing those we deem to be "different".

I had a VERY small social circle during those years, but I had a great family that helped me through it with tons of support.

SatyrService · M

these individuals have *probably* been bullied throughout their middle and high school years, or have at the very least been social outcasts. They may lack a good network of people to set them on the right path, or don't feel that they can tell anyone about their problems and even harbor feelings of animosity toward those closest to them]

I agree with your analysis . many of them seem to want notoriety? fame?
or to exterminate entire groups of people

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

Without stochastic terror, you can't have that "country,".

Zonuss · 41-45, M

Again, gun laws will change nothing. Especially here in our country, the great US.
People are violent, and will continue to be so from here on out.
You aint seen nothing yet.

TjNewton · M

Never mind i'm sure thoughts and prayers will work one day

BigGuy2 · 26-30, M

I believe it is SOLELY down to Bullying, the psychological problems THEN stem from that ... but America as a whole will not accept that it's a Bullying issue, because that means they have to do something about it then, more easier to NOT believe the victim of bullying, then they don't have to deal with it

DownTheStreet · 56-60, M

@BigGuy2 yeah a little less
Judgement and a little more love and compassion would go a long way. One thing these shooters all seem to have in common is years of being disenfranchised and ostracized.

So basically — a little more candy, please :)

DownTheStreet · 56-60, M

@BigGuy2 I should add that last few years are few other troubling stats are also on the rise: suicide, drug addiction, divorce. Isolation…

BigGuy2 · 26-30, M

@DownTheStreet yep, i know, BUT it's the same with the Criminal Justice System, idiots are running around like headless chickens trying to get ridiculous amounts help for the criminals, but no help for the victims of crime

This message was deleted by its author.

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LeopoldBloom · M

@MarmeeMarch It's adorable that you think Trump is a self-made billionaire. He inherited a fortune from his father, and would have more money today if he'd invested it in blue-chip stocks and spent his life sitting by the pool collecting dividend checks.

There's a joke among billionaires:

Q: What's the difference between Trump and other billionaires?
A: When another billionaire writes a check for a billion dollars, it doesn't bounce.

If those claims in your meme are verifiable, provide some citations from a credible source (by that I mean, other than Trump himself).

This message was deleted by its author.

LeopoldBloom · M

@MarmeeMarch I see. And he didn't inherit a penny or take over his father's real estate empire.

As for "billions," people who have analyzed his "fortune" estimated that his net worth (assets minus liabilities) was around $800,000 when he was elected president. He's doing much better now thanks to the saps who keep sending him money. Even Trump admitted that he counted the value of his "name" when calculating his wealth.

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