It is a tough call. To fight when you have a chance to win is one thing. To die for a lost cause is another. Ukraine cannot defeat Russia, it's just not possible. NATO would have to engage in the war directly. So you're asking people to go and fight just to hold off the inevitable, hoping that some kind of deal might come into place to keep some of the territory that you've been fighting over. It's really a big ask and certainly nobody who has never had to fight in a war should be forceful in their opinions about others who choose not to.
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Nightwings · F
@BlueVeins Ellesar has no idea what he's talking about. I actually do know the situation, I know Russia, I know everything I'm saying. Ellesar sounds like a Ruzzian podcast, nitpicking on irrelevant details and word-vomiting.
Nightwings · F
@ThirstenHowl No it's because there is not a single person who discusses politics online, who have the faintest clue what they're saying. You guys seem so unintelligent to me that I start questioning if you're even real.
BlueVeins · 26-30
@ThirstenHowl Past a point, how you deliver a message matters more than whether you're wrong or right man, idk how else to communicate that to you.
BlueVeins · 26-30
If we're honest, there's no way of getting around the fact that fighting defensive wars is morally necessary. It's just an exceedingly awkward conversation because war is truly Hell and most people would not apply that logic to themselves if it were their own life at stake. But the consequences of failing to defend countries which are attacked is that the most predatory, monstrous political apparatuses in the world should be the ones to gain and maintain power.
IMO the real crime here is that the burden has so disproportionately fallen on the Ukrainian people and NATO has done too little to pitch in. Stopping the purchase of Russian natural gas within a year would have been a tiny sacrifice compared to what's expected of Ukrainian men if managed properly, and we could clearly afford to pitch in more aid at the very least. In an ideal world, I'd like to see a US-based system for recruiting & training soldiers to then join Ukraine's military and there could be like a million-strong foreign legion, but we're nowhere near woke enough right now to even consider it so that conversation isn't even happening.
It's all fucked up. I extend my sincerest sympathies to you and your husband, regardless.
IMO the real crime here is that the burden has so disproportionately fallen on the Ukrainian people and NATO has done too little to pitch in. Stopping the purchase of Russian natural gas within a year would have been a tiny sacrifice compared to what's expected of Ukrainian men if managed properly, and we could clearly afford to pitch in more aid at the very least. In an ideal world, I'd like to see a US-based system for recruiting & training soldiers to then join Ukraine's military and there could be like a million-strong foreign legion, but we're nowhere near woke enough right now to even consider it so that conversation isn't even happening.
It's all fucked up. I extend my sincerest sympathies to you and your husband, regardless.
Nightwings · F
@BlueVeins You're absolutely right. I understand why they're recruiting, and there's a reason people aren't doing more about the recruiters kidnapping of people, everyone understands it. I want them to allow men to leave the country but whatever, this is an impossible situation for Ukraine to be in. I just think it's insane for people abroad to expect that of my husband personally and harass me because he doesn't wanna randomly die just becauss it's very possible now. People have lives, we are not in danger and have nothing to do with this war just because we live here.
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peterlee · M
Modern warfare is fought with drones, not men.
Terrorist campaigns do not follow any military rules.
Money spent on counterterrorist activities and defence shields is well spent.
In England we have an excellent counterterrorist organisation, but no defence shield. Far more drones are needed.
Make up your own mind about nuclear weapons. Personally I think they are needed as a defence mechanism.
Warfare involving troops belongs to another age.
Terrorist campaigns do not follow any military rules.
Money spent on counterterrorist activities and defence shields is well spent.
In England we have an excellent counterterrorist organisation, but no defence shield. Far more drones are needed.
Make up your own mind about nuclear weapons. Personally I think they are needed as a defence mechanism.
Warfare involving troops belongs to another age.
HoeBag · 46-50, F
I think a lot of people who want others to go fight, would not be willing to go themselves.
I do not blame anyone for not wanting to put their own life at risk for really anything, especially some war that will never end anyways.
The d3ad do not get to benefit from whatever it is that they volunteered their lives for.
Even if the person is seen as a "chicken", well it is better to be a live chicken than a d3ad duck.
I do not blame anyone for not wanting to put their own life at risk for really anything, especially some war that will never end anyways.
The d3ad do not get to benefit from whatever it is that they volunteered their lives for.
Even if the person is seen as a "chicken", well it is better to be a live chicken than a d3ad duck.
Nightwings · F
@HoeBag I think it will end, but Ukraine will never regain the territory lost. My husband and I want to continue our life, and achieve our goals, rather than him dying now for no reason at all, because something out of his control happened. 😅
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BlueVeins · 26-30
@HoeBag I feel like painting the war as hopeless needlessly devalues the sacrifice that Ukrainian soldiers are making. Fact is, we're three years into a three day special military operation that was supposed to take 100% of Ukraine and the Russians currently control 19%. Ukraine is badly bruised, but Russia isn't doing so hot either and they'd lose a lot less if they gave in. The war could go either way at this point, and it's worth it on Ukraine's part to put up a fight.
Elessar · 31-35, M
It needs something that humanity as a whole has to agree upon. So long as you have countries where conscription is tolerated and others where it's rejected or even abolished, the former will always try to wage war on the latter. If the average Russian told Putin "fk off, go to the front line yourself" the war would've ended before starting.
Another option is having a nuclear deterrence but I fear that if back in 1991 Ukraine decided to keep those warheads it would've been simply invaded before, I guess.
As for voluntary personnel, that's never sufficient, maybe only the US could defend itself with only professional forces and no conscription (ruling out a nuclear response, I mean), and even there I wouldn't be too sure.
Another option is having a nuclear deterrence but I fear that if back in 1991 Ukraine decided to keep those warheads it would've been simply invaded before, I guess.
As for voluntary personnel, that's never sufficient, maybe only the US could defend itself with only professional forces and no conscription (ruling out a nuclear response, I mean), and even there I wouldn't be too sure.
Nightwings · F
@peterlee Yeah of course they might do little things like that, but generally speaking I don't think you guys need to worry. Thank you for welcoming us haha. =3
Elessar · 31-35, M
@Nightwings Uh? Isn't the post about forced recruitment? Unless I've made a translation mistake that's what I meant with 'conscription'..
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BohoBabe · M
Well they probably mean all men should join the military, go through training, then fight in the war. Though it would be a bad idea for literally all men to do this, you should only join the military if you're healthy enough for it. And I don't know why it should be limited to men.
HoeBag · 46-50, F
@BohoBabe
Some people feel that way until it is their own son or even themself that gets called to go off and d*e in some useless b4ttle.
I think a lot of us would do the same thing, find ANY excuse to not have to go, even if we had to have a big yellow stripe painted down our backs. 😄
Why would ANYone want to go d*e for a country that doesn't care about them? Of course that is most countries.
, One should only join the military if they're healthy enough for it.
Some people feel that way until it is their own son or even themself that gets called to go off and d*e in some useless b4ttle.
But IDK, I'm not in that situation. I don't know what I'd do if I was.
I think a lot of us would do the same thing, find ANY excuse to not have to go, even if we had to have a big yellow stripe painted down our backs. 😄
Why would ANYone want to go d*e for a country that doesn't care about them? Of course that is most countries.
Nightwings · F
@HoeBag The worst thing is that there is no excuse to not go. They recruit a huge amount of people who are so physically ill that they die in the busses towards the barracks. As for mental health, that is not even considered real unless very severe. The recruiters are everywhere on the streets, and come to our apartments, so the only way to stay safe is for men move to another person's address and to lock themselves inside until the war is over. There is not even a way to go to prison instead, because the recruiters pick you up in their vans and drive you directly to the barracks. /=
HoeBag · 46-50, F
@Nightwings Is there even an age limit for being drafted?
ViciDraco · 41-45, M
There's a lot more to war than fighting on the front anyways. The rest of life still needs to continue at home or else what is left when the fighters come back? If all the male doctors go become medics who is going to treat the child who gets cancer? If all the electricians and plumbers and carpenters leave to die on the front who rebuilds the homes and businesses destroyed by missile fire?
smiler2012 · 61-69
[@nightwings ] it is human nature really that necessity to want to fight to survive under any circumstance
SpectralMourning · 41-45, M
Nightwings · F
@SpectralMourning I believe that the unit should be people who have military experience, but not random civilians. I also believe that those who are able to escape should be allowed to do so. It is a fight over a piece of land; the shorter it lasts, the less people have to die. Let those who want to fight, fight. In the end of the day, all that these people are dying for is someone else's pride.
hunkalove · 70-79, M
We haven't been the good guys in a war since 1945.
StygianKohlrabi · 46-50, M
if they're a foreigner they are still welcome to fight in the war
SinlessOnslaught · M