Went to the States and got called M’am. Everywhere!
Man it makes a woman feel old hearing that when she’s not used to it.
I don’t think anyone in Canada has ever called me m’am
I don’t think anyone in Canada has ever called me m’am
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
SandWitch · 26-30, F
I experience exactly the same thing when I travel to the USA, which is only on business these days. Even in my adolescent past as a teenager I was experiencing America's over-use of "ma'am" every single place I went to in America on a vacation visit, to the point were I felt the expression "ma'am" was SO overdone in America that it's use as an expression of respect has rendered itself meaningless. This is because our ears don't actually hear it anymore despite it being spoken repeatedly.
The same thing happens in the USA when males speak to other males I've noticed, where one always calls the other "sir" in every other sentence they speak. Like, what is that about, particularly when an older male is addressing a much younger adult male where the older guy will repeated address the younger guy as "sir"?
Where I come from and pretty much everywhere else in the world where I travel to on business, an older man would never call his younger counterpart "sir" in any situation because to do so is a direct reversal of hierarchy in the expression of respect for our elders.
Elders do not typically address underlings as "sir" or "ma'am" in any culture in the world I've experienced, but younger males are typically taught to address their elder males as "sir", with the exception of American culture where every male is called "sir" regardless of how old they are.
The same thing happens in the USA when males speak to other males I've noticed, where one always calls the other "sir" in every other sentence they speak. Like, what is that about, particularly when an older male is addressing a much younger adult male where the older guy will repeated address the younger guy as "sir"?
Where I come from and pretty much everywhere else in the world where I travel to on business, an older man would never call his younger counterpart "sir" in any situation because to do so is a direct reversal of hierarchy in the expression of respect for our elders.
Elders do not typically address underlings as "sir" or "ma'am" in any culture in the world I've experienced, but younger males are typically taught to address their elder males as "sir", with the exception of American culture where every male is called "sir" regardless of how old they are.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@SandWitch For sure the use of titles of respect is far more common here in the States.
I was using "Sir" and "Ma'am" from age seven on during my taekwondo studies. As were hundreds of thousands of other kids in martial arts studios (maybe millions? 🤷♀). And kids in scouting. And sports.
My transition into military life did not involve learning to show respect to those around me. I already knew that in spades.
But, yes, there are some people who do not know how to respond when I use words like Sir or Ma'am. They think there is some age reference Inherent in those words (there is not).
Yes, in my other comment, I referenced the use of the words when I'm in uniform, and I am aware that they are used more often in American culture (military and otherwise) than in much of the world. Personally I think that's a good thing. 🤷♀
I was using "Sir" and "Ma'am" from age seven on during my taekwondo studies. As were hundreds of thousands of other kids in martial arts studios (maybe millions? 🤷♀). And kids in scouting. And sports.
My transition into military life did not involve learning to show respect to those around me. I already knew that in spades.
But, yes, there are some people who do not know how to respond when I use words like Sir or Ma'am. They think there is some age reference Inherent in those words (there is not).
Yes, in my other comment, I referenced the use of the words when I'm in uniform, and I am aware that they are used more often in American culture (military and otherwise) than in much of the world. Personally I think that's a good thing. 🤷♀
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995
What you're not understanding is that the use of 'sir' and ma'am are inappropriately used in the USA and therefore render their use offensive to most civilized cultures around the world, the USA being the only exception.
What you're not understanding is that the use of 'sir' and ma'am are inappropriately used in the USA and therefore render their use offensive to most civilized cultures around the world, the USA being the only exception.
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995
That is precisely what you are not understanding sarabee1995. This is not about showing respect, this is about the inappropriate use of "sir" or ma'am" which has become an annoying habit among Americans wherever they travel, even if it's right within their own country.
The only time that "sir" or "ma'am" is used is if the person you are addressing is clearly older than you are and if they are, then you only address them as "sir" or "ma'am" ONCE, not repeatedly at the end of every sentence you speak to them or with every question of their's that you answer.
You do not say, "Yes, sir - no, sir - yes, sir - no, sir". You simply respond "yes, no, yes, no".
If you see a woman who drops her purse, you do not say "Pardon me ma'am, but you just dropped your purse".
You say "Excuse me, but you just dropped your purse".
Men and women, particular women who are not Americans are offended when Americans call them "ma'am" or they call men "sir" because those words carry a connotation of old age, or are wording that is typically reserved to addressing an elder or the very elderly.
Like I said before, this applies everywhere in the world EXCEPT the USA where Americans call each other "sir" and "ma'am" to either begin or end every single sentence they speak with each other, which quite frankly sounds very juvenile.
That is why it is totally INAPPROPRIATE for an older male or an older female to be calling a YOUNGER male or female "sir" or "ma'am".
The title does not fit because it is inappropriately used and it is something that American parents teach their young children when addressing adults, but they don't teach their children where to draw the line with that nonsense.
Eventually, as a child grows into adulthood, they are expected by virtue of their own maturity and social awareness, to drop the use of "sir" and "ma'am" unless they are speaking directly to someone much older than they are and if so, they only address those older persons as "sir" or "ma'am" ONCE during their initial introduction to that person, NOT repeatedly as they are speaking to them.
That is precisely what you are not understanding sarabee1995. This is not about showing respect, this is about the inappropriate use of "sir" or ma'am" which has become an annoying habit among Americans wherever they travel, even if it's right within their own country.
The only time that "sir" or "ma'am" is used is if the person you are addressing is clearly older than you are and if they are, then you only address them as "sir" or "ma'am" ONCE, not repeatedly at the end of every sentence you speak to them or with every question of their's that you answer.
You do not say, "Yes, sir - no, sir - yes, sir - no, sir". You simply respond "yes, no, yes, no".
If you see a woman who drops her purse, you do not say "Pardon me ma'am, but you just dropped your purse".
You say "Excuse me, but you just dropped your purse".
Men and women, particular women who are not Americans are offended when Americans call them "ma'am" or they call men "sir" because those words carry a connotation of old age, or are wording that is typically reserved to addressing an elder or the very elderly.
Like I said before, this applies everywhere in the world EXCEPT the USA where Americans call each other "sir" and "ma'am" to either begin or end every single sentence they speak with each other, which quite frankly sounds very juvenile.
That is why it is totally INAPPROPRIATE for an older male or an older female to be calling a YOUNGER male or female "sir" or "ma'am".
The title does not fit because it is inappropriately used and it is something that American parents teach their young children when addressing adults, but they don't teach their children where to draw the line with that nonsense.
Eventually, as a child grows into adulthood, they are expected by virtue of their own maturity and social awareness, to drop the use of "sir" and "ma'am" unless they are speaking directly to someone much older than they are and if so, they only address those older persons as "sir" or "ma'am" ONCE during their initial introduction to that person, NOT repeatedly as they are speaking to them.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@SandWitch
As I stated, neither term implies anything about age. When I was 22 years old, I was commissioned as an Ensign in the US Navy. Immediately, the Marine Drill Sergeant (35-40 years old) who lead me through training snapped me a very crisp salute in response to my first order and said, "Yes Ma'am!" I was 22, he was easily north of 35, maybe even 40-something. The title had nothing to do with either of our ages. It was respect shown.
When I volunteer at my old taekwondo studio, I snap out "Yes Sir's" and "Yes Ma'am's" to my subordinates all the time. It is respect shown.
When I am out and about as a civilian and I get asked a question by almost anyone, my answer almost always includes a "Sir" or "Ma'am" regardless of the querant's age. It is a showing of respect, most especially if the person looks like they need a little respect in their life.
I am sorry that you perceive someone showing you the respect that I'm quite sure you deserve to be something negative. As for me, I will continue to show respect to the people I encounter in life. It is the least I can do for my fellow travelers. I wish you well. 😌
sir
noun
used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority
noun
used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority
ma'am
noun
NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH
a term of respectful or polite address used for a woman
BRITISH ENGLISH
a term of address for female royalty.
BRITISH ENGLISH
a term of address for a ranking female officer in the police or armed forces.
noun
NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH
a term of respectful or polite address used for a woman
BRITISH ENGLISH
a term of address for female royalty.
BRITISH ENGLISH
a term of address for a ranking female officer in the police or armed forces.
As I stated, neither term implies anything about age. When I was 22 years old, I was commissioned as an Ensign in the US Navy. Immediately, the Marine Drill Sergeant (35-40 years old) who lead me through training snapped me a very crisp salute in response to my first order and said, "Yes Ma'am!" I was 22, he was easily north of 35, maybe even 40-something. The title had nothing to do with either of our ages. It was respect shown.
When I volunteer at my old taekwondo studio, I snap out "Yes Sir's" and "Yes Ma'am's" to my subordinates all the time. It is respect shown.
When I am out and about as a civilian and I get asked a question by almost anyone, my answer almost always includes a "Sir" or "Ma'am" regardless of the querant's age. It is a showing of respect, most especially if the person looks like they need a little respect in their life.
I am sorry that you perceive someone showing you the respect that I'm quite sure you deserve to be something negative. As for me, I will continue to show respect to the people I encounter in life. It is the least I can do for my fellow travelers. I wish you well. 😌
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995
When in Rome, do as the Romans expect you to do sarabee, not as you damn well please when you're in their country. Calling non-Americans "yes sir and no ma'am" is viewed as disrespectful and INAPPROPRIATE around the world.
It's the American version of "showing respect" that deems your perception of showing respect inappropriate if used in countries other than the USA. That is why it is said that when in Rome, do as the Romans do, not what you're drill sergeant taught you to do back in the States, ffs's!
If you actually understood what I was talking about sarabee, you would not be ragging on and on about what you were taught in the US military or how you routinely conduct yourself in taekwondo class which nobody actually gives a damn about, because absolutely none of it is relevant to this conversation.
That is why Americans like yourself are viewed as grossly obtuse when they travel outside the borders of their own isolationist Nation to other more intellectually developed Nations around the world, because Americans are viewed as arrogant and disrespectful when they say BS like "yes sir and no ma'am" as they begin and end every single sentence they speak.
The term "Yankee go home" has great meaning and it came about from Americans who didn't possess the wherewithal to show respect for the culture of the country they were visiting when Americans so arrogantly imposed their old yankee-doodle-dandy flag-waving BS onto a culture that was not of their own making.
Let me also remind you sarabee that the USA is just one country, it is not the world, so when you travel to Europe or anywhere else in the world for that matter, stop pretending that you're just traveling to another part of the USA.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
When in Rome, do as the Romans expect you to do sarabee, not as you damn well please when you're in their country. Calling non-Americans "yes sir and no ma'am" is viewed as disrespectful and INAPPROPRIATE around the world.
It's the American version of "showing respect" that deems your perception of showing respect inappropriate if used in countries other than the USA. That is why it is said that when in Rome, do as the Romans do, not what you're drill sergeant taught you to do back in the States, ffs's!
If you actually understood what I was talking about sarabee, you would not be ragging on and on about what you were taught in the US military or how you routinely conduct yourself in taekwondo class which nobody actually gives a damn about, because absolutely none of it is relevant to this conversation.
That is why Americans like yourself are viewed as grossly obtuse when they travel outside the borders of their own isolationist Nation to other more intellectually developed Nations around the world, because Americans are viewed as arrogant and disrespectful when they say BS like "yes sir and no ma'am" as they begin and end every single sentence they speak.
The term "Yankee go home" has great meaning and it came about from Americans who didn't possess the wherewithal to show respect for the culture of the country they were visiting when Americans so arrogantly imposed their old yankee-doodle-dandy flag-waving BS onto a culture that was not of their own making.
Let me also remind you sarabee that the USA is just one country, it is not the world, so when you travel to Europe or anywhere else in the world for that matter, stop pretending that you're just traveling to another part of the USA.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@SandWitch
When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
We are in agreement there! I travel extensively for work throughout Eastern Europe and parts of the Middle East. As part of my job, I review protocol documents to ensure we are in compliance with local cultures, etc. My use of sir and ma'am are limited to the States where it is more common and more accepted. I'm glad to hear you will "do as the Romans" when you are here and not be offended by local custom.
SandWitch · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995
That is correct. When I am in the United States and someone calls me ma'am, I am not offended because Americans using ma'am to address females who appear to have reached the age of majority and therefore are old enough to vote (which is 18 years of age and older and potentially still attending high school, regardless of her marital status being single, married or otherwise), it is understood that in American social culture within the USA, it is customary for Americans to address all said females as ma'am.
I'm glad to hear you will "do as the Romans" when you are here and not be offended by local custom.
That is correct. When I am in the United States and someone calls me ma'am, I am not offended because Americans using ma'am to address females who appear to have reached the age of majority and therefore are old enough to vote (which is 18 years of age and older and potentially still attending high school, regardless of her marital status being single, married or otherwise), it is understood that in American social culture within the USA, it is customary for Americans to address all said females as ma'am.