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Two Simple Questions

1. What is evolution?

2. Does it contradict the Bible?

Please answer in as simple terms as possible. For example, I'll turn the tables.

1. What is the Biblical creation account?

Answer: Every living thing, plant and animal was created to reproduce according to it's kind. Grass makes grass, turtles make turtles. Birds don't make lizards or lizards don't make birds.

2. Does it contradict evolution?

Answer: Some of it, apparently does.
SDavis · 56-60, F Best Comment
As simple as possible: evolution is the process from the beginning on how life formed and continue to form / evolve into all existing species ....... Evolution is man's scientific theory/analogy based on design and fossil evidence on how all living species came to be.


Not to be quite frank we don't know what process God used or how he used it. Scripture only informs us that God is the reason the earth and its inhabitants exist. Life forms show evidence of intelligent design even as I believe it was Hawkins said ( though he didn't mean a personal God as we view him)

We can just analyze from scripture

1) God told the Earth to bring forth plants after their kind
2) God told the waters to bring forth living creatures in abundance after their kind 3) God told the Earth to bring forth beast and cattle after it's kind 4) God formed man and "placed" him in the garden in which he had prepared in the East of Eden and told man to be fruitful multiply and "replenish" the Earth

First event from the scientific point of evolution plants were first as with creation they will like to say animals but though the sponges and amoebas and sorts are classified as animals they are not - so I'll just say not referring to those so named type of animals. And they have come to the conclusion plants existed quite a few millions of years before first analyzed ......... Second event from the scientific point of view the waters brought forth life forms - as with the creation account. Now science will say animals were first before plants because sponges are classified as animals and they say sponges can feel pain - how do they know.
I am not speaking of the animal they call the sponges, ((sponges have no nervous system, no digestive system, no circulatory system, no organs)) From the scientific point of view before there were land Beast, marine life existed, then the fowls. Much of the Dinosaurs had feathers; and to have feathers means you are a bird. So according to both science and creation marine life and fowl _ (dinosaurs/birds (and all birds don't fly) ............. Third event from the scientific point of view beast and cattle were next as evolution was taking its course and as with the creation account beast and cattle were next............. Forth event from the scientific viewpoint science places the evolution of man from a primate type animal and as with creation account man was next, only man was formed by God and placed in the garden. *God did not tell the Earth to bring forth man*

I don't believe in the process of evolution as it is taught ..... But the reproduction after it's kind spoken of in the Bible deals with procreation/reproduction (basically requiring male and female) that is not what evolution means. Evolution which is defined as ::::: The gradual development of something from a simple to a more complex life form has nothing to do with procreation.
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SDavis · 56-60, F
@Emosaur they are classified as animals by man and they are not - and faith has nothing to do with it and I can believe as I choose. I don't care if you call it cherry picking or not and I bet in life you have Cherry picked and will do it again.

As I see it I don't need a lesson in dinosaurs and birds nothing I've said nothing is in error concerning what evolution has classified them as - you need a lesson in understanding what you read, instead of jumping into one of those negative views without understanding.

Ridicule all you and any other who choose to - no skin off my back, no money from my pocket, no food off my table, won't interfere with my life none whatsoever.
I said enough of this I mean it enough of you goodbye.
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Evolution by natural selection refers to organisms that are better adapted to their environment, being more likely to pass those adaptive traits to their offspring, with the result that over many generations, the species changes or "evolves." This was first described by the Roman poet Lucretius thousands of years ago. The French biologist Lamarcke proposed that acquired traits could be passed down (for example a giraffe straining to reach leaves higher up on a tree would gradually grow a longer neck, and its offspring would inherit this). Lamarcke's theory was found to be incorrect, but in France, he's still considered the "father of evolution" as he at least proposed a theory.

Darwin is mainly recognized for his efforts in making rigorous scientific observations and proposing the theory of natural selection which is still accepted today. More recent modifications include "phyletic gradualism," or the theory that evolution occurs slowly and smoothly, and "punctuated equilibrium," or long periods with no change, interspersed with short periods of very fast change. Darwin was unaware of genetics, as Mendel's pioneering work had not been done yet, so he had no mechanism for explaining how traits were passed down.

Whether this contradicts the Bible depends on who you ask. The Catholic Church sees no contradiction and allows for evolution. Some fundamentalist Christian churches oppose evolution as they believe several Bible verses don't allow for it. Much of this opposition is also politically motivated.

The theory of evolution is an example of how science is not a house of cards, where if one thing is defeated, the entire edifice crumbles. It's more like a puzzle where every piece fits together. Evolution fits in with other aspects of our understanding of biology and behavioral science.
@AkioTsukino I don't want to argue with you, I'm just explaining my understanding of how it works. As someone who considers the Bible to be a fictional allegory, I don't care if other people think it contradicts the theory of evolution or not.

From Wikipedia: "An early thinker in what grew to become the study of evolution, Lucretius believed nature experiments endlessly across the aeons, and the organisms that adapt best to their environment have the best chance of surviving." From De Rerum Natura.
@LeopoldBloom
I don't want to argue with you, I'm just explaining my understanding of how it works. As someone who considers the Bible to be a fictional allegory, I don't care if other people think it contradicts the theory of evolution or not.

Okay. Good. You and I should get along fine.

From Wikipedia: "An early thinker in what grew to become the study of evolution, Lucretius believed nature experiments endlessly across the aeons, and the organisms that adapt best to their environment have the best chance of surviving." From De Rerum Natura.

Fine. Doesn't contradict the Biblical kinds. By the way, I wanted a source, Wiki doesn't give one for that. Not that I doubt it, or even that it really is relevant. Interesting, yes. I was just curious. I can give you quotes from Aristotle, Empedocles, Anaximander, Anaxagoras, but not Lucretius.
@AkioTsukino I saw the actual verse many years ago. I can't find it now other than that same Wikipedia article.

The reason Darwin is important isn't because he came up with the theory; it's because he made the necessary rigorous observations to support it, and because for the most part, his theory is still a valid explanation of observed phenomena.

I don't think evolution contradicts the Bible, but I don't care if it does.
Kstrong · 56-60, F
Evolution within a species adapting to its environment... you dont see species changing to another species... octopus breathing air... walking on land... but it can adapt to warmer waters, still swimming... its skin may change.... but its still living in water...
@Kstrong

My dude...there are fish that exist today which can go on land and breath air. Google it.

I'd be happy to give you an example proving that you are indeed related ancestrally to non-human apes if you say the word...but i get the sense you're not very interested in examining this particular belief...
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Gloomy · F
@Kstrong We are Homo Sapiens we are apes
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
Evolution is an observable process it's not like people are guessing. It's not incompatible with religious belief unless you're a biblical literalist which is contrary to basic theology.

You can have your faith without denying reality.
@CountScrofula Observable evolution, simply change in line with the Biblical creation account of kinds. Speculative evolution is eugenics and other forms of sociopolitical control. Though first introduced by ancient Greek philosophers, Aristotle, Empedocles, Anaximander and Anaxagoras, it was redesigned during the first and second industrial revolutions to remove theocratic control, which was also sociopolitical.

The Biblical kinds constitutes divisions of life-forms wherein each division allows for cross-fertility within its limits. The boundary between “kinds” is to be drawn at the point where fertilization ceases to occur.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
@AkioTsukino That seems like a ton of rationalization. The "kinds" are not clear cut lines. Birds are reptiles if you look at them from a strictly zoological viewpoint and how we understand the interrelationships of species.

I'm not disputing your faith or if god exists, but this understanding seems like a god of the gaps fallacy. You could just as easily say evolution is God's beautiful tool to ensure his creations survive as the world changes.
@CountScrofula I want truth. I don't care about God, my beliefs, your science, any fallacy over truth. You're complicating things.

Here's the truth.

Science says things evolve. I agree. Observed.

The Bible says according to their kinds. I agree. Observed.

Darwinian Evolution (or whatever it's current manifestation is labeled) says things eventually change into other things. I disagree. Not observed.

Where am I wrong?
@BlueSkyKing What refutes science is more complete and accurate, not better, science.

What impedes science is YOUR (representatives of science, not science itself) feelings, dogma, politics (i.e. "enlightenment" 9/11) and half baked opinion. I'm not even going to address YouTube videos. I understand your point and agree, but you can put accurate and complete science up on YouTube as well as the unfortunate alternative. If YouTube became the vehicle for the unfortunate latter it's only the fault of the former representatives and still, having said that, not the objective in the first place.

Religion is represented by, among others, idiots. Science is the new religion. The representation should be allowed because science, like religion, should be objective. The problem is the corruption of both (science and religion) by the debate of the idiots who misrepresent them. It's just noise. Ideological fixation. Financial and political incentive.
@AkioTsukino Not religion. Why can’t you get that science is methodology? Strict procedures with controls. Totally neutral to what people choose to do with it.
@BlueSkyKing
Not religion.

Oxford defines religion as a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance, so tell me how science, along with it's methodology is not a religion. I personally define religion as the strict adherence (at least in pretense) of a specific set of principles and/or repetitious ritual. How do you not see science as religion? Oxford also defines it as a particular system of faith and worship. Faith is simply trust, what is worship? Respect, honor, or devotion.

The only thing stopping you from seeing the obvious fact that science is a religion is your disdain for theocratic organized religion and an ignorance of what a deity is.

Totally neutral to what people choose to do with it.

Everything is neutral to what people choose to do with it! Religion, not unlike science, isn't a sentient being. Religion is neutral in that regard.
1. Evolution is the process by which populations of organisms change over time through descent with modification.

2. Yes, if one holds that animals were all created at around the same time in more or less their present form.

But also no in that evolution does not suggest that a reptile will make a bird. Rather it says that a reptile will make a reptile that is a little different to itself but largely the same. That slightly different reptile will have offspring that are slightly different to it as well and these small changes compound over hundreds and thousands of generations until so many changes have occurred that the descendant population is now a bird.

Also yes one considers the order of creation in Genesis to be accurate.
@AkioTsukino

Yes to the first...and?
I thought i explained in simple terms how fucking and having slightly different young eventually leads, when populations are separated, to very different populations.

Did you have an objection to that process?
@Pikachu Yes. I have an objection to that process. Namely, that you can't show it. Can't demonstrate it, can't test it, don't observe it. No one ever has. Back to where we were before.
@AkioTsukino

Namely, that you can't show it. Can't demonstrate it, can't test it, don't observe it.

Well you're objectively wrong there.
This process is directly observable and has indeed been documented both in the lab and in nature.

What you're objecting to is that this observed and documented process can produce large scale change over long periods of time.

My response to this objection remains the same and is one which you seem reluctant to meet head on.
Perhaps you'll rectify that now:

Since we observe that animals change over successive generations and that changes compound...what do you identify as the demonstrable, testable, observable mechanism by which this process is limited?

Or is it only "I haven't seen it happen before my eyes"?

Because to describe your familiarity with the evidence on this subject in your own words:
" My understanding is zero".

Hmm.
I don't tend to be so sure i'm right about things for which i declare my understanding to be zero...
I figure evolution is the detailed version and creation is the short version .

Eg: someone asks me where I got the wonderful lasagna from, so I say "I made it".
I don't tell them the whole rigmarole of how I made it as it's not cuiclal to the conversation .

I figure they are both the same thing .
@Gloomy More people believe in the Bible than evolution and many that believe in evolution believe it had intelligent design.

You're point is pointless. It doesn't matter how many idiots do or don't believe either one unless your real objective is, and it is, sociopolitical. You've already lost that battle.
Gloomy · F
@AkioTsukino
More people believe in the Bible than evolution and many that believe in evolution believe it had intelligent design.

😂😂

sociopolitical

You sound like a high schooler who learned a new word you think sounds smart and now you just randomly throw it out there.
Also reminder sociopolitics matter because they are a driving force behind societal progress in countries.
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Random3838 · 36-40, M
1. The commonly accepted definition of evolution is that every living species has a common ancestor.

2. No
Have we done this already? How do you reconcile the two?
@AkioTsukino We're still evolving. Though it's different now because we can better control evolution due to technology.
@BohemianBabe Technology only makes us stupid. Go back to the telegraph, television, internet, cell phones.

Telegraph was thought to bring peace through improved communication, it didn't. It allowed the spread of propaganda by those who controlled it. The television didn't educate it dumbed down. The internet provided information which was used for more propaganda. Cell phones didn't improve communication it promoted isolation. None of this reflects poorly on technology itself but rather how it is always used.
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@Emosaur
What part of evolution isn't testable?

The part you and @Pikachu can never show being tested, repeated or observed.
@Emosaur
That's like saying it was silly to assume it was your heart keeping your body going because you've never directly observed it, and instead it was more likely that it's actually run by a tiny engine powered by pixies.

No it isn't. Its like the stupid watchmaker analogy.

THIS is what it means to apply Occam's Razor; to look at your options and conclude the most plausible one, based on evidence, is the true one.

No, stupid, it means don't add made up shit. Actually, this: the principle (attributed to William of Occam) that in explaining a thing no more assumptions should be made than are necessary.

So looking at pictures of simian skulls and saying evolution must be true because they are similar to human skulls OR saying the same evidence is an indication that intelligent design is true. That's Ockham's razor. So, instead, you look at human and simian skulls and say they look similar. That's it.
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