Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens sapiens demonstrate diagnostically dissimilar morphology with each falling outside the range of the other species. We belong to the same genus and therefore do indeed share a lot of qualities but to claim Neanderthals are the same as modern humans is as silly as claiming a lion is the same as a tiger. Now that we know how smart, sophisticated and cultured Neanderthals were, creationists need to group them as the same as Homo sapiens otherwise the "created in god's image" narrative goes up in smoke. Yet another example of ideology perverting scientific objectivity. But the simple fact is that humans did not spring from clay and a divine breath but arose from a lineage that diverged along different paths before the others ultimately fell away leaving us as the only living member of our genus.
This kind of disingenuous propaganda serves only to preach to the choir. No thoughtful person who takes a moment to research the topic will be swayed by such shallow rhetoric .
@Pikachu considering what the Bible says that God put Adam and Eve out of the garden so that they wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life and live forever(Genesis 3:22) the fruit from the Tree of Life gave mankind a form of immortality - innocence that it was instant healing from any and every type of ailment man would/could face.
And according to Genesis 6 Plus The Book of Enoch angelic tampering / mingling, procreation, most likely artificial inseminations / experimentations by the the Watchers is why we have all these mutations in both animal and man is my belief - then who cares about what I believe?
In the early church understanding of the age of the Earth and when Adam sanding from my point of view is in error. From my point of view Adam and Eve was here a few hundred thousand years and had many, many, children and they spread all over the Earth just like God told them to do when he placed them here. But that's my point of view who cares - somebody else may read this and just get curious and do some researching.
God told the earth and the waters to bring forth all the animals and plant life, except man; God formed man, placed him in the garden and breathe the breath of life into him, which means his spirit with separates man from animals giving man the ability to know right from wrong good from evil. Man wasn't even created here on Earth but created from the elements of the Earth. God using the same intelligent design - ((didn't Einstein say he believes in intelligent design for the universe and life within it though not a personal God like the one of Christians)) God just changed a few chromosomes, genetic traits, to separate man from the primates.
God formed man from the dust/dirt/clay of the earth is the elements in modern day lingo of the Earth.
I wonder who will be screaming alien invasion when they see Jesus coming back from the clouds in the sky with his angels .... Considering the governments are releasing information about alien / extraterrestrial activities - alien / extraterrestrial means not from this Earth _ wow _ where is God and the angels from definitely not from this Earth _ oh sorry going into a different subject.
Not looking for a debate will not reply if you have something to say about my comment - I already know where you stand
@SDavis The tree of knowledge and life possessed no unique qualities, they were only representations of knowledge (sovereignty; the ability to decide what was good and bad) and everlasting life (something only the creator could effectively allow). The tree of knowledge represented God's sovereignty, his right, as creator, to decide what was best for man until man, like the angels, had matured to the point where they knew this themselves. Satan challenged that, then deceived Eve. Adam selfishly rejected it for fear of being alone without Eve.
Adam decided that he would be the one to decide what was good and what was bad, as if he knew better than his creator, based upon Eve's deception of Satan's challenge. God allows the challenge to be tested. He steps back and allows man as well as the myriad of angels to see the results of the challenge, but only up until it is clear that man, under Satan's control, will destroy themselves. He won't allow that.
As for Genesis 6, disobedient angels took human form to mate with human women, their offspring being the Nephilim. (Genesis 6:1-4; 1 Peter 3:19-20; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6) This wouldn't have any effect on human development because the Nephilim would have been destroyed in the flood and the angels would have had to abandon their human forms returning to heaven in spirit form.
I care what you believe. Each new variant of belief I encounter adds the opportunity for me to examine and analyze a new possible perspective. Beneficial to me if it happens to be anecdotal, traditional, or even inaccurate. As my own beliefs are often inaccurate. We can only come close to success regarding accuracy through failure, not dogma or doctrine. I've been doing this for 30 years and I still encounter perspectives I haven't been introduced to previously. And I'm still often wrong myself.
So, let's look at Adam's creation. Using the Biblical chronology mentioned above, Adam was created in about 4026 BCE, from then to the flood in 2370 is 1,656 years, then to the Abrahamic covenant in 1943, 427 years, from then to the Exodus in 1513 430 years, from then to the beginning of the construction of the temple in 1034, 479 years, from then to the division of the kingdom in 997 37 years, from then to the destruction of Judah by the Babylonians in 607 390 years, from then to the return of the Jews in exile in 537 70 years, from then to the rebuilding of the walls of Jerusalem in 455 82 years, from then until the baptism of Jesus in 29 CE 483 years, from then to the present day, 2023 1,994 years with a total of 6,048 years.
So how do we know it was 1,656 years from Adam to the flood? From just 35 verses in the Bible. Genesis 5:1-29; 7:6
From Adam’s creation to the birth of Seth 130 years Then to the birth of Enosh 105 years To the birth of Kenan 90 years To the birth of Mahalalel 70 years To the birth of Jared 65 years To the birth of Enoch 162 years To the birth of Methuselah 65 years To the birth of Lamech 187 years To the birth of Noah 182 years To the Flood 600 years Total 1,656 years
God made all of the creatures on earth according to their kind. You seem to imply that their various habitats bringing them forth implies God just put the process in motion. He created them all, including man. He put the breath of life into them all. Man's soul and spirit are separate aspects of life. The word translated soul means breather, it means life, the life experience of any breathing creature, it's blood; spirit means an invisible active force. Like wind, breath. So, you breath air (spirit) but something had to spark the breathing process, the beating of the heart, circulation of the blood (soul) which was also an invisible active force like, for example, electricity.
The soul and spirit being some metaphysical part of us then separated from us is Greek philosophy, not Biblical. God's creation isn't a fairy tale from Greek philosophical musings, it's practical, it's dependent, as it was created to be, on physical laws.
To say man had some special ability to know right from wrong could be misleading. First of all, when Adam was created, neither man nor God had knowledge of what was bad. Knowledge is something gained either through personal experience, observation or study. Bad didn't exist until sin. The tree of the knowledge of what is good and what is bad represented what would determine what was good and bad, not some special ability to possess it. Good and bad are subjective terms. So, was the one to decide. Adam and Eve rejected that. That's why for no apparent reason they suddenly felt ashamed of being naked. Different than the animals in a sense in that regard. No coats.
The Bible doesn't imply that Jesus will return physically to earth. He accomplished what he needed to accomplish the first time. From heaven he will return his attention to earth, but not physically return. In this sense he will have a presence like God had a presence in the Hebrew scriptures, though never physically or even spiritually there. Just as Paul referred to his presence though not physical appearance. (1 Corinthians 5:3.
@AkioTsukino Revelation 22:2 // Ezekiel 47:12 tells us that all the leaves of the tree of life is for the healing of the Nations...... I already mentioned Genesis 3:22 where God put them out of the garden lest they eat from the Tree of Life and *live forever* which is saying the fruit from the Tree of Life gave a form of immortality....... So either both trees had unique qualities, those scriptures mean what they say or they are a lie.
Genesis chapter 6 verse 4 says there were giants in the land **and also after that**__ and surprisingly enough God said he was going to kill man and Beast he never said anything about The offspring of the fallen Angels......... And there is on going debate on the Canaanites and whether they were offspring of the Angels / wasn't it Joshua who went back screaming there is giants in the land and what of Goliath and his family there is debates on them............. I personally say artificial insemination because Jesus said the Angels neither marry nor are given into marriage; so that alone makes me wonder exactly what the Angels did with or to the human females https://youtu.be/CLqJXW0gado
Once upon a time I cared what people believe but no longer. And having discussions with people I quickly learned that people are rude and downright insulting when you have beliefs different than theirs. Now I personally feel anyone is free to think what they want - do what they want it's their business - and when I tell a person I really don't care they push me to my limit.
I have read and even analyzed myself and have listened to other people's analogies of the years of lifespan between Adam and Abraham, Adam and David, Adam and Jesus, even up until today. But thank you for taking the time to write it anyway. One can only base Adams life from when the Bible started recording them having children............ It is my belief the Bible is based and Adam's life is based on after his fall and not before his fall my personal feeling is Adam was here hundreds of thousands of years before he listened to Eve and ate the fruit from the Tree of knowledge which opened his eye to right and wrong and in that time span they had many many children. Now the Bible doesn't say this but why should it the Bible is based on man's existence after sin. Those who translated scripture assumed Adam sinned almost the same day Eve was created which from my point of view is an error. It was the fruit and leaves from the Tree of Life that kept those genetic deformities from forming. And I am fully aware that the Tree of Life represents our Lord and savior. I am quite old, quite old, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years and the internet since I've gotten on it gives me a good past time to not only put out my beliefs but learn other beliefs. Right or wrong that's what I believe and that is what I will speak. The late Pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel believe that God created more than one man and taught so .... And there are a lot of different Christian theologist and their theologies - that's why we have so many different denominations. I just don't have a degree with my name.
Genesis chapter 1:11 God said let the Earth bring forth grass herbs yielding seeds.... 1:12 and the Earth brought forth grass herbs yielding seeds ________ 1:20 God said let the waters bring forth abundantly moving creatures that have life ________1:24 God said let the Earth bring forth living creatures after it's kind, cattle, creeping things, the Beast of the earth after his kind "and it was so" _________1:26 God said let us "make" man in our image .... 1:27 God created man in his own image....... When I read these scriptures I see God commanding the Earth to bring forth all the life that he had implanted in her...... He is talking to the Earth isn't he?.............. No what I said was not implying that God did not create _ that is your perception of my words. Can't seem to find the thread but generally what I say is we don't know what process God used - how he did what he did - we just know he did it - for him to do it **means he created it** regardless of what process he used.
Man is the only one where scripture says God breathe the breath of life into him. Man is the only one that says God formed him and put him in the garden. Now for me the breath of Life is God's spirit - what man began to call the Holy Ghost. God had already made it so the living creatures, beast, ect could breathe in the atmosphere on this planet. And to already make it so means he made preparations for life on this planet but he did not directly breathe the breath of life into any of them only man, according to scripture.
I didn't say man had a "special capability" to know the difference between right and wrong but I like the way you said that ////// man does have special capabilities to know the difference between right and wrong _ good and evil There isn't an animal on this Earth that has been proven to be able to know what is evil or isn't evil // what is right or wrong other than man - which is in the image of God _ which is why God said man has become as one of us _ until Adam sinned he didn't know there was a right and a wrong.
So you don't think Jesus is coming back to this planet well you need to read Matthew chapter 24 or The Book of Revelation - well there are so many those are good starters..... Not only is he's coming back but the people of the Earth is going to wage war against him and he is going to totally annihilate this entire solar system before it's all over with. And take those that He redeemed from the Earth to the new heaven and the new Earth where there will be no sun and no moon because he will be the light of it and there will be no seas only a river running through the circumference of the Earth. But if you don't think he's coming back that's fine believe as you choose.
What I've learned in my studies about the Neanderthal is the Europeans always want to separate them from Africa ......... I wonder why Europeans are very quick to say that they have the Neanderthal gene and their total Evolution was up north separate from Africa ........ Plus it is hard to find information on where they originated. Every now and then you'll find an article that be ancestor of the Neanderthal originated in Africa but continued its evolution in the lands now called Europe and Asia. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/science/where-did-neanderthals-come-from.html
From my studies many scientist believe that the ancestor of the Neanderthal was a homo heidelbergenesis and they too originated in Africa https://youtu.be/xp-enMWDu4o
There are those who say it's a possibility the ancestor of the Neanderthal was the Antecessor which may have been an off-shoot of the homo erectus living in Africa 1.5 million years ago.
@room101 oh you say here I come again - are you telling me you can say what you want but I can't? And tell me to try to focus exactly what I've been doing and seemingly irritating you. Oh I'm so sorry I just wanted to have a decent conversation concerning different point of views but apparently you can't respect that. Your studies - what studies - if you studied you know. Personally I like God's great outdoors gardening, fishing, hunting, and speaking the truth on matters. Wow I do paint - I paint my whatnots, and I paint my walls in my house - I paint my windows frames - finger painting that's more your line. GOODBY
@SDavis Of course you can say what you like. You can say that the world is flat if you want. Doesn't mean that it will go unchallenged. Is that what you want, the ability to spread bullshit and go unchallenged?
Yeah, good luck with that🤣🤣🤣
Maybe learn what a European is before you start branding us with your mountains of complete and utter nonsense.
There are people that disagree with the Out Of Africa Theory. So what? But to say that Europeans ALWAYS disagree...........nah, sorry sweet cheeks that ain't gonna work. Especially since one of the main proponents of the hypothesis, LSB Leaky (remember him?), was EUROPEAN!
@AkioTsukino Your nonsense post tells me that you fucked up in school. Your "everything is bullshit blah, blah, blah" tells me that you're angry.
We may be in the same age range, we may very well have various other similarities. None of that detracts from the fact that your brain is fossilised. Through age or disuse, who cares. You're an imbecile either way.
Neanderthals were the same genus as modern humans and had some of the same traits, but they were not the same as modern humans and are a good example of evolution.
