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Vaccines - No man is an island

In 1963 the first measles vaccine was patented and released for the masses. Western countries have massively invested in campaigns to get people vaccinated. The consequence was, that measles was almost eradicated in parts of the world with high vaccination numbers.

Somewhere during COVID, when people had little to do during lock down, anti-vax narratives started flooding the datasets that we all live in. A percentage of people that suddenly got interested in vaccination started doing their own research. A segment of those, got hooked on the sensationalist narratives of global elites pumping you full of harmful chemicals. The consequence is that a segment of the population "delayed" or just "denied" the vaccine during this periode.

[quote]Measles is one of the most contagious infectious diseases, and also one of the most preventable: two doses of vaccine in childhood is 97% protective. WHO estimates that some [b]61 million doses were missed or delayed in 2021. In 2022, about 83% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday – the lowest proportion since 2008, when the rate was also 83%.[/b][/quote]

Ideas like: extreme forms of skepticism and ultra-individualism [i](With libertarian greatest hits like: I do what I want; You can't tell me what to do; Leave me alone; I know what is best for myself; Stay off my lawn; Only I know what is good for me; I'm smart enough to make my own choices; ...)[/i], are slowly coming home to roost.

[quote]The WHO's most recent global numbers, released in November, reveal that [b]measles cases increased worldwide by 18% to about 9 million, and deaths rose 43% to 136,000, in 2022 compared to 2021[/b]. Some 32 countries had large, disruptive outbreaks in 2022, and that number ticked up to 51 in 2023, Dr. Natasha Crowcroft, WHO's senior technical adviser for measles and rubella control, told NPR.[/quote]

The measles as a vaccin, is usually injected as a combination with protection for: the mumps and rubella. All these diseases have a new playing field to fester because a segment of the population has been thought to mistrust vaccinations. Something that worked for years without much pushbacks and had incredible positive results, is now suddenly a big societal issue. Our herd-immunity is being diminished purely because a small segment of entrepreneurs are making loads of money selling the gullible a conspiratorial narrative. From merchandise to books to revenue on social media sites getting payed for clicks and likes.

But as the ultra-individualist will find out... being a little Cartman can have great consequences on a societal level. [b]Because no man is an island.[/b]

[media=https://youtu.be/z0-KZS1dDyw]

[b]SOURCE:[/b] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/02/08/1229540182/its-no-surprise-theres-a-global-measles-outbreak-but-the-numbers-are-staggering

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gol979 · 41-45, M

My body, my choice. I know you dont think thats right and the "experts" should have control over what goes into yours/others body but i reject that notion completely.

I will pass on injections thanks, especially that super safe and effective, mrna covid injection. You do you.

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InOtterWords · F

@gol979 kids are dying from measles..... what if schools prevent those that are not vaccinated from attending school?

gol979 · 41-45, M

@InOtterWords that's called segregation. Do you believe that schools should exclude children for not being injected? For example there are unis in america who are excluding students who arent "fully vaccinated" for covid

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 I guess you still haven't been able to figure out that this "segregation" that you are talking about, is not on the basis of anything that people have 0 control over like: biological sex, race, IQ, ... etc. But that it's a direct consequence of a free choice that people make.

People like yourself would call quarantine "segregation" as long as it fits their victim narrative.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 so its all good for a university to exclude students who arent "fully vaccinated" for covid in your opinion?

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 When you are in the middle of a pandemic, and this is the way you want to open your university... then why not? Next to that, if you refuse, you can always learn by yourself. Most universities I'm aware off put their course material online and have regular moments where you can have a convo and ask questions to your professor.

But for the "my body my choice" crowd, it's not only about personal liberties the rest of the world also needs to accommodate what ever liberty they want to invoke. And those other people, have liberties too Gol.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 they are being excluded now.....not in the middle of a so called pandemic. And if you do, why?

Just to clarify, you think that people who get injected for whatever illness are good citizens and can participate in society and people dont get injected for whatever illness should be excluded from society? Ie you think that injected people are somehow different to people who dont.

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 I think that there are moments where the statement about exclusion is true. Depends on the context.

I also do believe that citizens that let themselves be vaccinated for a number of diseases that have grave consequences for the rest of the population: measles, polio, rubella, ... etc., do a service to their nation [i](and even too those outside their nation, as in: "humanity as a whole") [/i]. The reality, as in, the reemergence of diseases that were practically annihilated because we collectively made a choice to vaccinate our kids, kinda proofs my point in the most objective way possible.

"Vaccinated people" as a concept is by definition different then "unvaccinated people". But I do remind you, that both groups are still human beings.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 ok, so you see injected people as different to non-injected people. And you dont need to remind me that injected/non-injected people are human.....its you and others who want to treat humans differently based on injection status. And i notice you avoid the question re universities excluding students being excluded for not being "fully vaccinated" for covid.......presume you agree with this stance from universities?

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 You also see them as different, else you wouldn't use the category Gol.

I don't think we are at a point were universities need too exclude people for not being vaccinated by covid. The issue with measures that are taken in crisis situations, usually run longer then the crisis. For me this needs to be mitigated. The only exception to this... is when you study medicine. If you study medicine and you don't trust vaccines, maybe you shouldn't be there.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 nope, i dont want you or anyone treated any differently based on whether you had an injection or not.

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 That's not the answer to your question Gol. You just squeezed in "treated" there. But too be fair, I totally understand that there are moments where choosing not to be vaccinated have consequences. Just like when a large portion of people choose not to be vaccinated for measles have consequences for the rest of the population.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 my question?

Ahhh good ol' "consequences"

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 Yes Gol... actions and consequences. Time to grow up 👬

InOtterWords · F

@gol979 i think it is acceptable as a consequence of a choice you have made. It is not the same as segregation as @Kwek00 pointed out as this is through choice.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 so the "consequences" for being excluded from unis for not being "fully vaccinated" for covid in 2024 arent right but some others are?

gol979 · 41-45, M

@InOtterWords thats fair enough, you think its acceptable to exclude children for injection status.....i completely disagree

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 During the COVID pandemic, I had no issue with this measure so society could open up again. Vaccinations helped to control the damage. Don't forget, that societies choice to lock down to mitigate the issues with the disease AND those that were trying to facilitate the sick (hospitals, nurses, doctors, etc...).

The numbers on the consequences of those that were vaccinated and those that weren't are still in favor of people that choose to have the vaccine. So yeah, it's consistent imo.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 so how did the covid injections change the individual recipient? Did the injections cure covid? Stop infection? Stop you testing positive for covid? To want to treat people differently based on covid injection status they surely have one of those outcomes.

InOtterWords · F

@gol979 it is not about individuals though but a collective.

Maybe you dont remember the number of deaths at the start of the pandemic and the pressures on care homes and hospitals. Maybe it didnt affect you.

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 No, it mitigates the damadge. The group of vaccinated people had way less severe consequences then the group that wasn't vaccinated. Which was pretty necessary too take away pressure from the healthcare system. That last bit is one of the big reasons why we went into a lock down too. Get vaccinated, run less risk to end up in a hospital ward, healthworkers thank you for your service.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@Kwek00 so those covid injections didnt stop infection/testing positive for covid, didnt cure it. It just allegedly, maybe stops the individual getting really sick.......but you want people to face consequences when the only perceived benefit is that the recipient might not get ill.

Doesnt make any sense at all.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@InOtterWords how did those covid injections help the "collective"?

Are there any safety issues with these covid injections?

Kwek00 · 41-45, M

@gol979 The numbers kinda go against the idea that it's just "allegedly", because in the vaccinated group a lot less people got "really sick".

There can be consequences with every thing that you introduce to your body. The potential consequences of the COVID vaccine don't live up too the benefits of the vaccine. And yes, sometimes it's good to collectively do something because it's better for everyone. Just like certain countries have an obliged insurance for their car in traffic EVEN when they never get into an accident. But those that do get into an accident, and create a permanent issue with the people that they hit, at least have an insurance too pay for possible damages. While if you don't have an insurance, a lot of victims of car accidents end up not being helped because the person that caused the accident has no way of financing the damage that they cause.

InOtterWords · F

@gol979 deaths reduced; people still got infected but the effects were reduced so they didnt get as ill.

There are safety issues with everything, but the good outweighs the bad....it is what isbest for the collective. If you choose to opt out that is fine but then do not expect to bebegit from things that are for the collective.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@InOtterWords @Kwek00 so the line "if you have the covid injection, you wont get covid" (all experts said that and also many people repeated this) was wrong. The 100% safe and effective line was also wrong. So now the line is, "get the covid injection, it might stop you from going to the hospital but it could have serious bad effects, and it does nothing to stop you testing positive you should still face the consequences"?

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