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samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
At least the anti-science people have stopped denying the presence of the virus and the pandemic entirely.
It is always easy to pull snippits from discussions, and at different times in the introduction of the vaccine to me ale w hg steven point you be wish. The data is there though, the number of cases and deaths, the difference between the case loads apparently depending upon the vaccine penetration in the areas. Don't start picking nonsense about side effects now to counter, that has been debunked so often, it makes no sense to argue with people who refuse to listen to reason and science. The evidence of the long term effects of the virus on the brain is astounding, long term permanent effects. Prevention is still the best approach.
It is always easy to pull snippits from discussions, and at different times in the introduction of the vaccine to me ale w hg steven point you be wish. The data is there though, the number of cases and deaths, the difference between the case loads apparently depending upon the vaccine penetration in the areas. Don't start picking nonsense about side effects now to counter, that has been debunked so often, it makes no sense to argue with people who refuse to listen to reason and science. The evidence of the long term effects of the virus on the brain is astounding, long term permanent effects. Prevention is still the best approach.
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BizSuitStacy · M
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BizSuitStacy but, when the majority of evidence supports a scientifically theory, it should be accepted. It is almost impossibly ble to ever be 100% sure of anything in science. We accept that we know things at a confidence of 95%
BizSuitStacy · M
@samueltyler2 oh...science by consensus. Yay! Like the earth is flat, or the earth is hollow, fish have a 3 second memory, or that humans evolved directly from Neanderthals. Countless other examples of accepted scientific theories later proven false. But you have a bigger problem with covid - a constantly changing narrative coupled with known suppression of other opinions.
It starts with covid being a naturally occurring virus even though scientists have found strange genome sequences, and have [b]never[/b] found it in an animal. And they've looked. In a 18 month time span, scientists tested over 80,000 animals, wild and domestic, across 209 species in the Wuhan area. Not one instance in any of these animals was found carrying the covid virus. And that is the only way to prove it wasn't created in a lab. And then there's the bigger problem with EcohHealth Alliance VP, Andrew Huff, who has blown the whistle on the GOF research, and said the virus was created in a lab. He's not certain if the release was intentional or accidental, but we now know for certain that Fauci is lying about the viral origins. And if they are willing to lie about that, they definitely would be willing to lie about the vaccine.
[quote]when the majority of evidence supports a scientifically theory, it should be accepted.[/quote]
The majority of evidence? That's purely an assumption on your part based entirely on a narrative from the mainstream media. Yet we know Twitter and Facebook suspended and banned opposing voices. And if you actually open your eyes, you'll see the media debunking itself.
Remember...
You won't get covid if you get vaccinated.
Then it was you can still get it, but not spread it.
Then it was, well, you can get it and spread it, but you won't get sick.
Then it was, well, you can get sick, but you won't end up in the hospital.
Then it was, you can still go to the hospital, but you won't die.
Now evidence is showing that the vaccinated are dying of covid on a higher rate per capita than the unvaxxed.
First it was just the initial vaccine that was necessary. Then an annual booster. Now you need multiple boosters annually because the mRNA vaccines suppress the immune system. The efficacy becomes negative after 90 days. You end up more likely to get covid than your unvaxxed counterpart. And yes...that last statement is coming from real scientist...immunologists and virologists such as Dr. Malone. No problem though...just follow the media propaganda and call them conspiracy theory nut jobs.
Real doctors that took their oath seriously are pointing out both VAERS and DMED. Insurance companies are seeing excessive deaths of 40%. Morticians are pulling out fibrous clots they had never seen prior to the jab. Orders for child sized coffins are much higher than normal for casket manufacturers.
Yet this safe and effective jab is still under an EUA...even though Pfizer's Comirnaty is FDA approved. And all the vaccine manufacturers are still protected by a liability shield. And how long were the test trial for these vaccines? Seven to 8 months instead of the typical 5-12 years. Why did Pfizer and the FDA want to withhold the data on their studies for 55 years? Or was it 75?
And if it's so darn safe and effective, why is the media now discussing pandemic amnesty? Ahhh...perhaps they see Nuremberg 2.0 may actually happen and are trying to save their hides. In the first Nuremberg trials, doctors, nurses found guilty of performing cruel experiments on Jews were hung. So were members of the media for collaborating in the propaganda.
Tick tock...
It starts with covid being a naturally occurring virus even though scientists have found strange genome sequences, and have [b]never[/b] found it in an animal. And they've looked. In a 18 month time span, scientists tested over 80,000 animals, wild and domestic, across 209 species in the Wuhan area. Not one instance in any of these animals was found carrying the covid virus. And that is the only way to prove it wasn't created in a lab. And then there's the bigger problem with EcohHealth Alliance VP, Andrew Huff, who has blown the whistle on the GOF research, and said the virus was created in a lab. He's not certain if the release was intentional or accidental, but we now know for certain that Fauci is lying about the viral origins. And if they are willing to lie about that, they definitely would be willing to lie about the vaccine.
[quote]when the majority of evidence supports a scientifically theory, it should be accepted.[/quote]
The majority of evidence? That's purely an assumption on your part based entirely on a narrative from the mainstream media. Yet we know Twitter and Facebook suspended and banned opposing voices. And if you actually open your eyes, you'll see the media debunking itself.
Remember...
You won't get covid if you get vaccinated.
Then it was you can still get it, but not spread it.
Then it was, well, you can get it and spread it, but you won't get sick.
Then it was, well, you can get sick, but you won't end up in the hospital.
Then it was, you can still go to the hospital, but you won't die.
Now evidence is showing that the vaccinated are dying of covid on a higher rate per capita than the unvaxxed.
First it was just the initial vaccine that was necessary. Then an annual booster. Now you need multiple boosters annually because the mRNA vaccines suppress the immune system. The efficacy becomes negative after 90 days. You end up more likely to get covid than your unvaxxed counterpart. And yes...that last statement is coming from real scientist...immunologists and virologists such as Dr. Malone. No problem though...just follow the media propaganda and call them conspiracy theory nut jobs.
Real doctors that took their oath seriously are pointing out both VAERS and DMED. Insurance companies are seeing excessive deaths of 40%. Morticians are pulling out fibrous clots they had never seen prior to the jab. Orders for child sized coffins are much higher than normal for casket manufacturers.
Yet this safe and effective jab is still under an EUA...even though Pfizer's Comirnaty is FDA approved. And all the vaccine manufacturers are still protected by a liability shield. And how long were the test trial for these vaccines? Seven to 8 months instead of the typical 5-12 years. Why did Pfizer and the FDA want to withhold the data on their studies for 55 years? Or was it 75?
And if it's so darn safe and effective, why is the media now discussing pandemic amnesty? Ahhh...perhaps they see Nuremberg 2.0 may actually happen and are trying to save their hides. In the first Nuremberg trials, doctors, nurses found guilty of performing cruel experiments on Jews were hung. So were members of the media for collaborating in the propaganda.
Tick tock...
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BizSuitStacy You are totally out of your league. You are quoting debunked statements.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply spitting back nonsense from the far r9ght media.
You and your clan are trying to convince people abandon the use of immunizations. You will be contributing to the death of thousands or more US citizens and others throughout the world. Ask anyone who practiced medicine in the 1950s-1980 about their experiences with measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, Hemophilus influenza. meningococcal disease, etc.
Please stop spreading your personal beliefs.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply spitting back nonsense from the far r9ght media.
You and your clan are trying to convince people abandon the use of immunizations. You will be contributing to the death of thousands or more US citizens and others throughout the world. Ask anyone who practiced medicine in the 1950s-1980 about their experiences with measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, Hemophilus influenza. meningococcal disease, etc.
Please stop spreading your personal beliefs.
BizSuitStacy · M
@samueltyler2 ohhhh...all of it has been debunked? 🤣🤣🤣 Says every loser who can't actually defend their position.
You're just another 🦜spewing the leftist narrative. And you immediately played the anti-vaxxer card. So we'll trained.
I'm surprised you didn't accidently pull out the race card or the climate denier card instead. You know nothing about me, but it doesn't stop you from making broad assumptions without verification, if course. Congrats...you display the classic arrogance of the typical MD. I know this may fracture your delicate ego, but plenty of people are as smart as you and even smarter than you. Yet, I believe it's a good thing for you and for your patients that you're retired. The public will reach the boiling point and the torch and pitchfork crowd will be gunning for the culpable. They won't look favorably at your type.
Tick tock doc.
You're just another 🦜spewing the leftist narrative. And you immediately played the anti-vaxxer card. So we'll trained.
I'm surprised you didn't accidently pull out the race card or the climate denier card instead. You know nothing about me, but it doesn't stop you from making broad assumptions without verification, if course. Congrats...you display the classic arrogance of the typical MD. I know this may fracture your delicate ego, but plenty of people are as smart as you and even smarter than you. Yet, I believe it's a good thing for you and for your patients that you're retired. The public will reach the boiling point and the torch and pitchfork crowd will be gunning for the culpable. They won't look favorably at your type.
Tick tock doc.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BizSuitStacy you are acting like the typical, uneducated far right conspiracists. Are you now espousing killing those who believe in science and worked around the clock trying to save lives? Just who are you threatening? Watch your words and actions, you will be culpable if rhetoric turns deadly.
BizSuitStacy · M
@samueltyler2 espousing? threatening?
LOL. Bump up the dosage on your donepezil if you're struggling to keep up. You're about 2 years behind the media cycle. You remember the Nuremberg trials, right? Nuremberg 2.0 is coming for the leftist ilk responsible for unleashing this virus, the lockdowns and forcing people to to take this poison. The torch and pitchfork crowd will be those who regretfully took the jab, or who watched loved ones who suffered from it. I never took it, nor will I. Just letting you know the fun that's about to come.
LOL. Bump up the dosage on your donepezil if you're struggling to keep up. You're about 2 years behind the media cycle. You remember the Nuremberg trials, right? Nuremberg 2.0 is coming for the leftist ilk responsible for unleashing this virus, the lockdowns and forcing people to to take this poison. The torch and pitchfork crowd will be those who regretfully took the jab, or who watched loved ones who suffered from it. I never took it, nor will I. Just letting you know the fun that's about to come.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@BizSuitStacy Yeah, sure, you really frighten me with your nonsense. I think you need to read up on the laws, rules and regulations which came out from the trials at Nuremberg. Read about modern research in medicine and how it is allowed and overseen. You might just learn something, if your mind hasn't become so poisoned by the nonsense that your media has fed you.
BizSuitStacy · M
@samueltyler2 Frighten you? LOL. No one is coming after you. But those guilty of crimes against humanity will be held to account.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 Why should anybody "stop spreading their personal beliefs"? ("Spreading"is your word for "expressing". It's a heavily biased word.)
Do you realise the implications of what you have just said? Choose between authoritarian, dictatorial, totalitarian.
Do you see the next step? check how they do it in China, Russia, 30s and 40s Germany. It's to imprison those who express their personal beliefs.
Watch out, dude - you're on a seriously flawed pathway
Do you realise the implications of what you have just said? Choose between authoritarian, dictatorial, totalitarian.
Do you see the next step? check how they do it in China, Russia, 30s and 40s Germany. It's to imprison those who express their personal beliefs.
Watch out, dude - you're on a seriously flawed pathway
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF I generally don't like to get into personalities, but you are seriously acting like an idiot. Watch out, you are seriously adversely affecting the lives of others by spreading nonsense, eventually, history will show how evil you have been!
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2
(You haven't answered any of my points, by the way = a lot of time wasted for me)
So you DO believe I am killing people by my written words!
Well I have never ever seen such a thing.
Has this happened before, in history, or is it just happening now, generated by the unprecedented mass vaccination campaign with a two-month product preparation time? that a man can kill just by writing words that are read by maybe 50 visitors to this item?
Sounds utterly ridiculous to me.
(You haven't answered any of my points, by the way = a lot of time wasted for me)
So you DO believe I am killing people by my written words!
Well I have never ever seen such a thing.
Has this happened before, in history, or is it just happening now, generated by the unprecedented mass vaccination campaign with a two-month product preparation time? that a man can kill just by writing words that are read by maybe 50 visitors to this item?
Sounds utterly ridiculous to me.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF The written word of one person isn't really that powerful, but there appears to be almost an organized attempt to discredit the science and efficacy of the covid vaccines and mitigation processes. The rate immunization has dropped and thus the immunity in the community has dropped, this it true not just for covid, but for all immunizations. That will likely lead to sporadic upbreaks that will cause suffering and deaths. We, the medical community, does not know why we seem to be having an early and worse influenza season in the N hemisphere, and why there is also a major outbreak of RSV infections in children. The excessive number of admissions this year over the past years is staggering.
It may seem ridiculous to you, but every discussion of this subject by people ill informed, leads to spread of this nonsense, ultimately, leading to suffering and death. If you cannot offer constructive advice as to how to protect oneself from infection, and please don't use the nonsense of a good diet and exercise, that is true for everything, but will not adequately protect society from harm.
It may seem ridiculous to you, but every discussion of this subject by people ill informed, leads to spread of this nonsense, ultimately, leading to suffering and death. If you cannot offer constructive advice as to how to protect oneself from infection, and please don't use the nonsense of a good diet and exercise, that is true for everything, but will not adequately protect society from harm.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 I have an inbuilt immune system, which does a pretty good job. I also exercise and eat healthily (although that brings no profit from Big Pharma, which wants to help me by the use of their products). I don't need to be protected from harm by whoever.
If I get ill, I stay at home till I'm better. I don't rush to "test myself"? Who "tested themselves" before this covid thing? How did people live or soocieties survive before 2019? Tests are advantageous for some, though - a way of getting DNA as well as money out of you, and, if you're unlucky, a way of breaking the blood-brain barrier.
Remedies for covid? Check out the protocols at https://covid19criticalcare.com/
If I get ill, I stay at home till I'm better. I don't rush to "test myself"? Who "tested themselves" before this covid thing? How did people live or soocieties survive before 2019? Tests are advantageous for some, though - a way of getting DNA as well as money out of you, and, if you're unlucky, a way of breaking the blood-brain barrier.
Remedies for covid? Check out the protocols at https://covid19criticalcare.com/
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF If you are so certain of your beliefs, stick to them, but don't complain if you get sick and can't be helped, I assume that you never go to a physician when you are ill, never take any medication. Good luck, you are playing "Russian-roulette," with your health. That is fine, but please do not proselytize that sort of behavior to others.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 I disagree. It is my right to state what I believe and talk about what I do.
Being a committed Christian, would it shock you (maybe even "harm" you), if I posted that I believe that salvation is possible only through faith in Jesus Christ and belief in what he achieved on the cross?
Could I say, with your permission, that the Bible says that a man must be saved?
Or is that also content which "terrorises"?
Where do you draw the line?
Being a committed Christian, would it shock you (maybe even "harm" you), if I posted that I believe that salvation is possible only through faith in Jesus Christ and belief in what he achieved on the cross?
Could I say, with your permission, that the Bible says that a man must be saved?
Or is that also content which "terrorises"?
Where do you draw the line?
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF If you clearly state it is your view, if you do not attempt to convince others that you are the only one who knows the truth and only one who can save the world, Yes, you have your right to free speech, but, once you start impeding on my rights, then you are out of line.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 I have not stepped on your rights! I have engaged in debate with you (science, after all, is debate in order to reach consensus).
That is not forcing you to do or believe anything!
Leave the "oh I'm so shocked / offended / harmed by what you said" type of reaction to the troubled youth of today. At our age, we should be able to discuss without such reactions.
By the way, since the covid meltdown, I have no longer been able to visit my clients in France (including Sanofi in Paris, Lyon, and Sanofi Pasteur outside Lyon). But I do keep my eye in with my Master II class in Clinical Research at the medical faculty of the Sorbonne University.)
You are not discussing with fuzzy youtube video armchair amateur.
That is not forcing you to do or believe anything!
Leave the "oh I'm so shocked / offended / harmed by what you said" type of reaction to the troubled youth of today. At our age, we should be able to discuss without such reactions.
By the way, since the covid meltdown, I have no longer been able to visit my clients in France (including Sanofi in Paris, Lyon, and Sanofi Pasteur outside Lyon). But I do keep my eye in with my Master II class in Clinical Research at the medical faculty of the Sorbonne University.)
You are not discussing with fuzzy youtube video armchair amateur.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF I have a right not to be bombarded with religious information that I have not requested. I have my own personal beliefs, I have no need to try to get you to join with me. Think of the millions of humans who have died because one group believed their God was/is the only true God.
I wish you would [i][b]debate[/b][/i] the science by citing science, not the garbage that is being spread over the internet. Surely, if you have a science background, you know the difference, or at least should!
I wish you would [i][b]debate[/b][/i] the science by citing science, not the garbage that is being spread over the internet. Surely, if you have a science background, you know the difference, or at least should!
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2
I still disagree. My expressing my faith, or saying what the Bible says, is NOT me "bombarding" you or anybody "with information they have not requested!" This is wrong! You are stifling free speech! Nobody is obliging you to read my posts!
Anyway, I agree that "religion" is a murderer. I hate religion. The only thing important to mankind, in my opinion, is relationships. True Christianity is a relationship with God.
And if you don't like me saying that, if it offends or harms you in some convoluted woke way, then you are a threat to freedom.
As for replying to science with science, I can give you a list of sources by PM. But I know that you will reject every one because you will approach them through the skewed lens of the "fact-checkers", whose sole aim is to "debunk" them (see previous remarks on the "debunking" concept).
If you are capable of objective appreciation of contributions to the big debate that do not agree with the interpretation the media and your scientists give you, then I will send them. But then again, why should I? There is no way that you, offended by anyone who so much as posts that he believes in God, would accept to view objectively other sources.
I still disagree. My expressing my faith, or saying what the Bible says, is NOT me "bombarding" you or anybody "with information they have not requested!" This is wrong! You are stifling free speech! Nobody is obliging you to read my posts!
Anyway, I agree that "religion" is a murderer. I hate religion. The only thing important to mankind, in my opinion, is relationships. True Christianity is a relationship with God.
And if you don't like me saying that, if it offends or harms you in some convoluted woke way, then you are a threat to freedom.
As for replying to science with science, I can give you a list of sources by PM. But I know that you will reject every one because you will approach them through the skewed lens of the "fact-checkers", whose sole aim is to "debunk" them (see previous remarks on the "debunking" concept).
If you are capable of objective appreciation of contributions to the big debate that do not agree with the interpretation the media and your scientists give you, then I will send them. But then again, why should I? There is no way that you, offended by anyone who so much as posts that he believes in God, would accept to view objectively other sources.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 Your answer, I know it already - it's a fact-checker prime cut:
"You won't send me your sources? THEN YOU'VE GOT NOTHING"
It's a classic reply. So pathetic
If it comes back, then I will close this post to further remarks, and you can go on your way. There's nothing more to say.
"You won't send me your sources? THEN YOU'VE GOT NOTHING"
It's a classic reply. So pathetic
If it comes back, then I will close this post to further remarks, and you can go on your way. There's nothing more to say.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF so call me pathetic, scientists need to review data. I am a "pathetic," scientists, but i treated patients and did clinical research over a 50 year successful career, by collecting data and using it take care of sick individuals
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 I certainly didn't call you pathetic! I would never think that.
I called the "you've got nothing" response pathetic, when someone refrains from giving their sources because he knows they will be rubbished by the slimy fact police.
Those offering other points of view have no chance. "The Science" has been ringfenced and secured like Fort Knox. To get beyond those barriers - even to WANT to get beyond them - you have to be pretty tough. You have to be ready to be disillusioned. That takes guts.
I called the "you've got nothing" response pathetic, when someone refrains from giving their sources because he knows they will be rubbished by the slimy fact police.
Those offering other points of view have no chance. "The Science" has been ringfenced and secured like Fort Knox. To get beyond those barriers - even to WANT to get beyond them - you have to be pretty tough. You have to be ready to be disillusioned. That takes guts.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@WalterF I have bucked the establishment all of my life and academic career. I am willing to question what I know on a regular basis. Even in retirement I read several journals each week.
WalterF · 70-79, M
@samueltyler2 That's good to hear.
On the contrary, I had never been a rebel, always obedient to authority, always believing the authoritieswere acting for our good.
BUT when at the beginning of 2020, as we turned on the news at 4pm, all the reporting became so dire and depressing, and Boris Johnson wheeled out his 3 Sage stooges at 5, and put us all on a war footing, I felt most uneasy, suspicious even.
We turned the TV off for good in March 2020. I started reading between the lines, investigating other scientists' opinions. My wife got the vaccinations, I refused. Ready too fast, experimental technology never used on this scale before, no informed consent with warnings read to patients with the opportunity to say no, a sinister degree of pressure exercised by the government, masks, distancing, attempts to override people's common sense by locking them down (a prison term), whereas previous pandemics had been dealt with sensibly (now look at the huge cost of these "lockdowns")... this just was not normal.
So if you're not at ease, you question everything. In semi-retirement, I had / have the time. I have the sense not to be taken in by charlatans, to see through pretenders. ("Charlatans", by the way, is another key FC term for any scientist they don't like.)
The volume of scientists, studies, research, investigations into the vaccines, the adverse effects, the famous spike protein which can travel everywhere in the body, is enormous. Every day I receive a number of emails containing the latest discoveries and articles. And these are not made of homemade tin hat stuff. These are scientists and intellectuals!
This is not some bagatelle that will go away. It is very very serious.
On the contrary, I had never been a rebel, always obedient to authority, always believing the authoritieswere acting for our good.
BUT when at the beginning of 2020, as we turned on the news at 4pm, all the reporting became so dire and depressing, and Boris Johnson wheeled out his 3 Sage stooges at 5, and put us all on a war footing, I felt most uneasy, suspicious even.
We turned the TV off for good in March 2020. I started reading between the lines, investigating other scientists' opinions. My wife got the vaccinations, I refused. Ready too fast, experimental technology never used on this scale before, no informed consent with warnings read to patients with the opportunity to say no, a sinister degree of pressure exercised by the government, masks, distancing, attempts to override people's common sense by locking them down (a prison term), whereas previous pandemics had been dealt with sensibly (now look at the huge cost of these "lockdowns")... this just was not normal.
So if you're not at ease, you question everything. In semi-retirement, I had / have the time. I have the sense not to be taken in by charlatans, to see through pretenders. ("Charlatans", by the way, is another key FC term for any scientist they don't like.)
The volume of scientists, studies, research, investigations into the vaccines, the adverse effects, the famous spike protein which can travel everywhere in the body, is enormous. Every day I receive a number of emails containing the latest discoveries and articles. And these are not made of homemade tin hat stuff. These are scientists and intellectuals!
This is not some bagatelle that will go away. It is very very serious.
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