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Mandates or Choice?

Has anyone who agreed with covid injection mandates changed their minds? Has anyone who agreed with withdrawing medical care from people that didnt get injection ("its your choice, have the injection or face the consequences of your choice") changed their minds?

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ElwoodBlues · M

I'm gonna start a new thread here so my comments don't get buried.

I think an employer or a business owner is well within his or her rights to make a workplace safe for employees and customers. And governments are employers. Do you know any doctors who work in hospitals? Ask them what vaccinations are required for the job. As I said, a business owner is well within his or her rights to make a workplace safe for employees and customers. Those are the mandates I support.

I don't support refusal of health care for people who refuse vaccination with the exception that in a triage situation, when ERs or hospitals are overflowing, refuseniks should get a lower priority.

Here's a real simple hypothetical: three beds left in the ER, eight ambulances pull up with Covid pos people in respiratory distress. The triage doctor has to make a decision: who gets one of the 3 beds and immediate care vs who gets put back in the ambulance and sent to some other ER possible across town?

In that hypothetical, I totally support the triage doctor giving the beds to the vaccinated. Stats from 2021 say that 80% of our Covid deaths came from the 20% unvaccinated. Let's give the ER beds to those who took steps to protect themselves.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues so you are in favour of treating people that didnt get the covid injection differently. As stated previoiusly, at least you own your abhorrent views

Punches · 46-50, F

@ElwoodBlues The reason some employers do not mandate vaccines is because they are hurting for workers enough as it is.
If they mandate vaccines, not only would some people be fired/quit but they would be hard to replace since a qualification would be to be vaccinated, further shrinking their pool of perspective hires.
Plus since most jobs are lower wage anyways, you cannot exactly tell someone getting low pay that they have to get shots. It ain't worth it.

ElwoodBlues · M

@gol979 Doctors have to make triage decisions. It's part of the job.

I find it more than a little ironic that the "party of Choose Life" so quickly morphed into the party of "I don't care how many millions die I don't want shutdowns."

Punches · 46-50, F

@ElwoodBlues

I don't care how many millions die I don't want shutdowns

I am still curious why small shops, which bring little traffic, had to shut down but big stores were allowed to stay open. And with small shops shut down, big stores had even MORE traffic.

ElwoodBlues · M

@Punches Do you have examples? Are the small & big stores in the exact same business? Or are you complaining that restaurants shut down but supermarkets stayed open? Does the phrase "essential business" ring a bell?

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues yes, we all know you are in favour of medical segregation. And i appreciate you own your disgusting views

ElwoodBlues · M

@gol979 Now you're telling lies about me! I am in favor of vaccination status being taken into account in triage decisions. Lie all you want to, my stand is clear unless you censor it.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues its c!ear as day. You are in favour of mandates and people to be treated differently because of medical status. Youve said it multiple times. As stated previously, i think (in fact all apart from you on this thread are against mandates) your views are disgusting but i appreciate that you own your views

iamonfire696 · 41-45, F

@ElwoodBlues I agree with you 💯

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues apologies @iamonfire696 is in lockstep agreement with mandates and medical segregation

ElwoodBlues · M

@gol979 You've delivered a FINE example of the hasty generalization fallacy!

Not unexpected from a guy who believes ALL MEDICAL ADVICE is WRONG, LOL!!!

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@gol979

treating people that didnt get the covid injection differently

In the triage situation described, the physician is making a rational decision based on simple realities... vaccinated patients are likely to have less severe responses to infection, are likely to recover more quickly, and to therefore use less medical resources.

The pro-covid patients will use more resources, require longer treatment cycles, and are less likely to benefit from the increased resources expended on them.

Economics 101

Healthcare resources are not infinite. Physicians try to counter the effects of bad decisions made by others. Deliberately trying to purloin a greater share of those resources has consequences.

Do you feel your behaviour should not carry consequences?

Do you feel that others should suffer because your behaviour displays reckless disregard of the needs of others?

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues You have no proof that any of the measures had any effect on the course of the disease. Funny story. I sent a crew in to do a small job. The company they went to demanded proof of vax. The entire crew walked out and refused to do the job. The company then relented and let the crew do the job. Funny part was most of the crew were vaxed and everyone of the vaxed had had an adverse reaction to the vax.

ElwoodBlues · M

@hippyjoe1955 True story: all science EVER provides is increasingly strong statistical evidence. Deal with it.

Funny story: Two days ago some idiot from Edmonton claimed

Oh you mean like that picture CNN has up on Ukraine that has a firefighter in it wearing an EDMONTON fire fighter suit on it? You mean that kind of verified information. Psssst the fire was in Edmonton last week. It started near refinery row as shown by the oil tank in the picture. But you carry on with your blind faith in the media while the rest of us sit back and laugh at you.

Funnier story: this morning I wake up to read:

The "EDMONTON" coat was donated to firefighters in Ukraine by firefighters in Edmonton. An Edmonton-based nonprofit called Firefighter Aid Ukraine has donated "several hundred" sets of Edmonton turnout gear to Ukraine, plus hundreds of additional sets of turnout gear from other communities, founder and project director Kevin Royle, an Edmonton firefighter himself, told CNN on Sunday. The coat seen on CNN "came from our program, most definitely," Royle said. And there is no doubt that Russia attacked the Lviv fuel facility; its defense ministry publicly confirmed the strike on Sunday.

Founded in 2015, Firefighter Aid Ukraine has supported Lviv firefighters for years. On Monday, the nonprofit resurfaced a photo it had originally posted on Facebook in 2017 -- of its team in Lviv handing out a coat that said "EDMONTON" on the back, just like the one seen on CNN on Saturday. Canadian broadcasters CBC and Global News ran stories in 2017 about this Firefighter Aid Ukraine donation trip."

https://similarworlds.com/countries/ukraine/4276560-Whos-side-are-you-on-After-some-lets-say?sort=1

Funniest story: the original idiot from Edmonton continues to swallow his own bulllshit long after he is proven wrong, ROTFL!!!

DUUUDE!!! CNN is 1000000X more reliable than you!!

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues I could take you to the spot where the picture was taken. It is in east Edmonton not far from the Beverly Bridge. It spread north east toward Refinery Row. Sad that you 'reliable CNN' misled you again. You should get paid by the 'quote' for spreading this misinformation. You would be a rich man by now. As it is you are just a fool. Have a nice life.

ElwoodBlues · M

@hippyjoe1955
I'd settle for you posting the CNN image plus your own photo. But you won't do that because your claim is just more lies, and posting the photo would prove it! LOL!!!