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Mandates or Choice?

Has anyone who agreed with covid injection mandates changed their minds? Has anyone who agreed with withdrawing medical care from people that didnt get injection ("its your choice, have the injection or face the consequences of your choice") changed their minds?

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ElwoodBlues · M

Has anyone who agreed with polio vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with tetanus vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with smallpox vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with diptheria vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with whooping cough vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with measles vaccine mandates changed their mind?
Has anyone who agreed with mumps vaccine mandates changed their mind?

Most smart people realize that medical science knows more than they do about dealing with highly infectious diseases.

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues so you are in favour of covid injection mandates? And the refusal of health care for ppl that dont get the covid injection?

ElwoodBlues · M

@gol979 I think an employer or a business owner is well within his or her rights to make a workplace safe for employees and customers. And governments are employers. Do you know any doctors who work in hospitals? Ask them what vaccinations are required for the job. As I said, a business owner is well within his or her rights to make a workplace safe for employees and customers.

I don't support refusal of health care for people who refuse vaccination with the exception that when hospitals are overflowing, refuseniks should be sent to the back of the line. Overall, isn't it kinda weird that refuseniks think they know better than the doctors and claim the doctors are lying until the refuseniks get sick, and then suddenly they're begging the doctors for help??

Hollie Rivers regrets

"Get it if you can"

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues so you are in favour of delaying health care for people who didnt get the covid injection. Ok. A bit harsh. What if the person got injured from the covid injection, should they go to the back of the line as they made a choice to have.it?

And mandates for the covid injection. Do you agree or not?

ElwoodBlues · M

@gol979 I answered your mandate question with business owners' rights to make a safe workplace. Maybe you should brush up on those reading skills?

Have you never heard of triage? I'm saying in a triage situation, and ONLY in a triage situation, vaccine refuseniks don't get the same urgency.

What if the person got injured from the covid injection

Those people are dealt with at the injection site! The only real injection injury is strong allergic reaction - that's why they tell you to hang around 15 minutes, or 30 if you've ever had anaphylaxia. Then they can give you an epi pen right away.

But seriously dude, you're ducking MY question. Overall, isn't it kinda weird that refuseniks think they know better than the doctors and claim the doctors are lying until the refuseniks get sick, and then suddenly they're begging the doctors for help??

"I have an immune system"

"99 probs vax ain't 1"

gol979 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues so your in favour of treating the un-injected differently.....cool. At least you have conviction. I completely disagree with you as what youre advocating is abhorrent but at least you own it

pdockal · 56-60, M

@ElwoodBlues
tetnus mandates ?
All those diseases you mentioned have a GREATER mortality rate then covid
Covid injection is similar to a flu shot which is NOT mandated so why mandste an injection that may or may not work ... correct my if I'm wrong but you can still get covid weather you have the injection or not ... you can spread it, you can die from it, SO WHY MANDATE it ??????

ElwoodBlues · M

@pdockal I'd love to see your mortality figures. Oh, but you're bluffing about that - you don't have any mortality figures.

Mortality of those diseases in the US are actually quite low BECAUSE we mandate MMR & DTaP vaccinations for public school attendance!

pdockal · 56-60, M

@ElwoodBlues
are you daft ?
We're not talking about number of deaths
Were talking about percentage of deaths and survival rate
Those diseases are for more deadly then covid

ElwoodBlues · M

@pdockal I'm talking about preventing hospitals from overflowing. I'm talking about preventing the collapse of our healthcare system. I'm talking about saving American lives - millions of them. It's becoming increasingly difficult to figure out what you're talking about.

pdockal · 56-60, M

@ElwoodBlues
I don't really care what your babbling about
If i get the shot can i still die, if i get the shot can i still transmit, that being said it should NOT be mandated
I had covid
ALL the people i know who had covid are fine
Not everybody is hospitalized from being infected
Are the numbers high, sure but give me percentages (what percentage of infected Are hospitalized and of those what percentage die)
And instead of feelings and sensationalizing (like the news & polititions) provide the actual percentages

ElwoodBlues · M

I'm quite willing to admit that no path in life is risk-free, no treatment is perfect, all treatments have side effects.

@pdockal

And instead of feelings and sensationalizing (like the news & polititions) provide the actual percentages

I'm glad you asked.

In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 20% of the Covid deaths, while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced over 80% of the Covid deaths.

In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 31% of Covid cases; while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced nearly 70% of Covid cases.

This means the US unvaccinated had a 5X higher chance of contracting Covid compared to the vaccinated per capita, and that overall the unvaccinated had about a 15X higher probability of Covid death per capita.

Note: since 'Long Covid' occurs in 15% to 25% of Covid cases, that means there is also a 5X higher prevalence of Long Covid per capita among the unvaccinated.

For sources and discussion click here:
https://similarworlds.com/disease-illness/vaccines/4268857-Covid-Vaccine-effectiveness-data-from-the-US-2021

pdockal · 56-60, M

@ElwoodBlues
The data keeps Changing
and if you read the data as it's changing i believe more unvaxed are getting sick now
If you read the data masks weren't necessary
And shouldn't it be MY CHOICE to live or die not YOURS ??????
You can get out not get the vax as I don't care what you do
No matter how you spin the data (yes it's been politically spun) I'll take my chances with my own immune system doing its job
I never get the flu shot
I never get the pneumonia shot
I didn't get the shingles shot
Etc
Etc
Etc

ElwoodBlues · M

@pdockal

The data keeps Changing

Yeah, the real world is like that. The data also says the vaccines are an unequivocal public health success.

i believe more unvaxed are getting sick now

Did you notice how well triple vaxxing protected 65 & up? Did you notice how many unvaxxed in the 50-64 range died? You'd be a fool to skip the vaccine.

If you read the data masks weren't necessary

Link us to that data, if you please!

I'll take my chances with my own immune system doing its job

Just don't clog up the ER when you do get sick!

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@ElwoodBlues I bet you were aware that the "regret not getting vaxed" campaign was a paid promotion. It was show to be some time ago. You just aren't keeping up son.

ElwoodBlues · M

@hippyjoe1955 Way way ahead of you, son.

In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 20% of the Covid deaths, while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced over 80% of the Covid deaths.

In 2021, the 75% of Americans fully vaccinated produced under 31% of Covid cases; while the 25% unvaccinated Americans produced nearly 70% of Covid cases.

This means the US unvaccinated had a 5X higher chance of contracting Covid compared to the vaccinated per capita, and that overall the unvaccinated had about a 15X higher probability of Covid death per capita.

Note: since 'Long Covid' occurs in 15% to 25% of Covid cases, that means there is also a 5X higher prevalence of Long Covid per capita among the unvaccinated.

For sources and discussion click here:
https://similarworlds.com/disease-illness/vaccines/4268857-Covid-Vaccine-effectiveness-data-from-the-US-2021

Philth · 46-50, M

@ElwoodBlues I'm intrigued. At what point do we think that "hippy" joe (because there's not actually much hippy about a hard right Bible basher) is going to recognise that he's wrong, wrong, and fucking wrong? :-)

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@Philth and your evidence is CNN? NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

ElwoodBlues · M

@hippyjoe1955 says:

and your evidence is CNN? NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

It's cute that dippyjoe disparages everyone else's sources yet never reveals his own. His hypocrisy in that respect is well known. But he raises a more immediate question here. Whom should we believe, CNN or dippyjoe? Well, an interesting datapoint for that question appeared a few days ago.

Funny story: Mar 28 some idiot from Edmonton claimed

Oh you mean like that picture CNN has up on Ukraine that has a firefighter in it wearing an EDMONTON fire fighter suit on it? You mean that kind of verified information. Psssst the fire was in Edmonton last week. It started near refinery row as shown by the oil tank in the picture. But you carry on with your blind faith in the media while the rest of us sit back and laugh at you.

Funnier story: Mar 30 I wake up to read:

The "EDMONTON" coat was donated to firefighters in Ukraine by firefighters in Edmonton. An Edmonton-based nonprofit called Firefighter Aid Ukraine has donated "several hundred" sets of Edmonton turnout gear to Ukraine, plus hundreds of additional sets of turnout gear from other communities, founder and project director Kevin Royle, an Edmonton firefighter himself, told CNN on Sunday. The coat seen on CNN "came from our program, most definitely," Royle said. And there is no doubt that Russia attacked the Lviv fuel facility; its defense ministry publicly confirmed the strike on Sunday.

Founded in 2015, Firefighter Aid Ukraine has supported Lviv firefighters for years. On Monday, the nonprofit resurfaced a photo it had originally posted on Facebook in 2017 -- of its team in Lviv handing out a coat that said "EDMONTON" on the back, just like the one seen on CNN on Saturday. Canadian broadcasters CBC and Global News ran stories in 2017 about this Firefighter Aid Ukraine donation trip."

https://similarworlds.com/countries/ukraine/4276560-Whos-side-are-you-on-After-some-lets-say?sort=1

Funniest story: the original idiot from Edmonton continues to swallow his own bulllshit long after he is proven wrong, ROTFL!!!

Philth · 46-50, M

@hippyjoe1955 CNN? ya know what? There's a world beyond where you live, and a vast choice of different broadcasters beyond those commonly viewed where you're from.
FYI, I've lived most of my life in Cwmfelinarw, and it's in my back garden whereone of the chaps whose work helped form the US Constitution learned to fish. Steady on now, lad.

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@Philth You think I watch CNN? Seriously? I don't even have TV!

Philth · 46-50, M

@hippyjoe1955 I made no such suggestion. If you look back through the thread, it was you who suggested that I watch CNN. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not. Steady on, old chap.

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M

@Philth I have never suggested anyone trust CNN. I regularly make fun of people who do watch CNN or those I suggest might be watching CNN because they are so misinformed.