Zero covid strategy

@gol979 You really have a point here.

@Cierzo look at oz and nz. Single figure is deaths "with" covid and locking down, mandating experimental injections (300 deaths in oz from the mengele "medicine", 4 "with" covid). On top of all that we are being tricked with the fraudulent tests

It's complete madness

@gol979 Both countries are looking these past two years really authoritarian.

@Cierzo Curious though, and I don't assume anyone really knows, how many would have died in countries if they had taken more authoritarian approaches? It's hard to use examples of island countries compared to countries that have land borders, whose trade, way of life is integrated this way.

@thewindupbirdchronicles Certainly island countries had it much easier.

@thewindupbirdchronicles yes, we can know. Compare countries with harsh lockdowns to the countries with softer lockdowns. Follows the same or a lesser trajectory of "deaths". Lockdowns are a crime against humanity

@gol979 You confuse me - most who use that line of logic argue for lockdowns.

@thewindupbirdchronicles you can't logically argue for lockdowns

@gol979 I can in a short term time frame, but not in 15 month lengths. I could say, my hair not being cut for weeks at a time is no big deal; their income is important to them (I know). One thing Canada did do, was provide direct support immediately, and in a short time frame very helpful, but not a healthy solution in long term. The cracks of who could benefit were exposed quick.

As an immediate response, trying to keep society moving, I can argue for that, but I don't think this foe (virus) was actually the one we needed to have this response for. Some are very right in saying, only about 2% (I'm upping the fatality rate for purposes as it counts some for those who suffer from long term affects) is not the virus we really should be afraid of. What happens if one comes along with much more significant effects?

@thewindupbirdchronicles like I said, you can't logically argue for lockdowns. What's haircuts got to do with anything? Direct support is dole money and if this "support" wasn't there ppl would be, rightly, very angry at the response. It's hush money and more reliance on the system. The 2% you mention would be a devastating death toll but we are nowhere near that....it's 0.03%

All the responses (lockdown, masks, social distance) are nothing to do with good health....they have the opposite effect, physically and mentally

@gol979 Hmm, what does haircuts have to do with it? One of the last businesses in Ontario allowed to open, I think that counts.

Curious though, "dole" "welfare" to you means hush money? You're exposing your ideology a little there.

I purposefully upped my numbers to account for long term affects and weeks some have spent on ventilators, etc.

@thewindupbirdchronicles so you're saying that if the "support" wasn't there everyone would still be all good with lockdown?

@gol979 Not my words, how did you come to that conclusion?

@thewindupbirdchronicles so saying that if the "support" wasn't there ppl wouldn't be so accepting of lockdown isn't my "ideology" then?

@gol979 I was talking about your attitude about the "dole" "welfare" more..

@thewindupbirdchronicles but shorn of the context in which it was said. It's not my ideology/bias on show. I will reiterate.... "Remove or never have had the "support", then way more ppl would be fighting against lockdown"

@gol979 You associate the dole with welfare. That if the state helps it's communist, socialist, which as a Canadian I can't support in idea

@thewindupbirdchronicles dole is welfare....it's just taxonomy. Again, you are taking what I'm saying, even after I've reiterated what I said, out of context to fit your preconceived idea about "my ideology"

So, do you think that ppl would be as supportive of lockdown if there wasn't any welfare (specifically for lockdown, not welfare in general)?

@gol979 Not exactly, and if you want to twist words around (again), I will say which I know will get your heels, I support the "dole". I'm trying to get you to say you are a conservative that doesn't believe in social supports, is that hard on you?

@thewindupbirdchronicles it's not a hard question to answer but you're obsessing about putting me in a pre packaged pigeon hole. "You're a conservative who doesn't believe in social supports". Again, completely out of context.

So, do you think that ppl would be as supportive of lockdown if there wasn't any welfare (specifically for lockdown, not welfare in general)?

@gol979 Well I have a hard time understanding you. I did admit in my first comment back, I've never heard of someone arguing the logic for lockdowns (keeping death toll down), and come back with the response, lockdowns are a crime against humanity.

I'm sorry, if I'm taught and learnt those who don't support those measures and then complain about the dole are very conservative.

Likely, I'll answer directly, if those supports werent there - many coudn't have supported the suppression of income, livelihood. Q - should they have existed?

@thewindupbirdchronicles you misunderstood. I didn't argue for lockdown and they also don't keep death toll down. Lockdowns cause death and destitution...way, way more than covid

Ok, so to agree with that statement isn't conservative or against welfare

@gol979 I don't think we are arguing exactly, I actually feel the one thing government/public health has failed to see is the indirect consequences. I have a friend now, and things are getting better here, whose had two friends close to suicide. I know it's anecdotal, and can't be attributed entirely, but some humanity sees if you remove people from the social connections they need, they become desperate and what issues they have will become more.

That's the problem with science though, it needs to be proven when so much of life is actually felt.

@thewindupbirdchronicles yep. One of me work mates committed suicide. Mental health issues have increased 3 fold, kids are being traumatised, elderly are being isolated as euthanised.

Don't be worried about anecdotal...those are lived experiences and have more "truth" than what the psychos are spewing out of the teevee

@gol979 I'm not, I'm only worried that anecdotal can never account for what would have happened