I have had arguments with quite a few people on SW who spread far right talking points. But I encountered a new low with a certain user (sree251) claiming: [quote]Hitler did not commit atrocities. He was doing what we humans do to save the world [/quote]
While we might disagree on political issues I like to use this post to remember all the victims of the Nazi - murder machinery and hope many come forward to join me in calling out and fighting any kind of Holocaust denial, fascist apologism and Neo-Nazism.
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@originnone [quote]Yes, this is what scares me about comparing trump to hitler.[/quote]
Trump isn't ideologically fascist, but he is constantly doing Fascism. He is trying to end American Democracy, he is calling on violence against his political enemies, and he is using Nazi talking-points about Marxists trying to destroy America. If Trump had his way, he probably wouldn't commit mass genocide. However, he will have turned America into a place where whoever is in charge could easily commit a genocide. And by the way, that's what happened with Germany. The Nazis did [b]not[/b] end Democracy, that happened during the Weimar Republic. The Nazis took advantage of the anti-democratic political establishment that was already there.
So yes, it's completely fair to compare Trumpism to the kind of Authoritarianism that made the Holocaust possible. And while Trump isn't ideologically anything, there are people like Ron DeSantis who actually are Fascists. And if Trump succeeds in ending our Democracy, those people will eventually be in charge.
Finally, just because Trump isn't a real Fascist, doesn't mean he won't commit war crimes. One of the biggest war criminals in Nazi Germany was Hermann Göring, who didn't actually believe in Nazism. Like Trump, he only cared about his career.
@Gloomy Trump isn't a fascist, at least not ideologically. He's a conman who identified a group of people he could most easily manipulate and appealed to them. He cares about no in groups or out groups, only himself and what he views as a zero sum game where there must be losers in order to have winners.
DeSantis is a fascist. This guy in the primary, Vivek Ramaswamy is a fascist. Trump in his selfish disregard opened the door. But the true believers are only now stepping onto the stage.
@hippyjoe1955 Oh really I didn't know Democrats build up a threat of so called "globalists", evoke traditionalist values that are supposed to be under threat by modern "degeneracy" or try to build their followers up to be some kind of heroes that supposedly fight for their country like the people on january 6th
@Gloomy It would appear as though you have no idea what fascism is all about. Kind of sad really. My uncles and father in law risked their lives fighting Mussolini and Hitler in WWII and the dictatorial ideology both Mussolini and Hitler held and you echo Hitler and Mussolini and their philosophy. Fascists were not conservatives. They were national socialists. They believed in the power of the state to determine the outcome of their economies and their wars and their social interaction. Anyone who disagreed with them was silenced. Maybe you are too young to know about all this but I talked to people who survived those horrors. You make a mockery of those survivor's memories.
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@hippyjoe1955 are you really spreading the false notion that Nazis were left wing? Because that is just incorrect no scholar nor anyone familiar with political ideologies would agree with you. Jewish organisations dealing with the Holocaust also name National Socialism as a far right ultranationalist ideology so I am not disrespecting survivors. Also keep contemporary politics out of it because that's real disrespect
@Gloomy They were the pride of the progressives in the 20s and 30s Only after the death camps were found (one of which my uncle helped liberate) were the nazis declared 'right wing'. The fact of the matter is that the democrats/liberals here in Canada have a much closer resemblance to nazis that what is now the 'right wing' which are in large part classic liberals. I don't care what you do in your bedroom but your type seem to think I do and therefore I must be a nazi. How very nazi of you to think so.
@hippyjoe1955 [quote]They were the pride of the progressives in the 20s and 30s[/quote]
No communist and socialist parties were. They even fought on the streets against Nazi thugs in Weimar Germany. Your attempt to fake history or your apparent lack of knowledge is scary.
@Gloomy You are arguing silliness. Tyranny is tyranny no matter what label you attach to it. As we Christians observe the devil hates even his own. Yes some socialist (socialist international) fought other socialists (nationalists). They both thought the government was an agent for good and for improving mankind. They simply disagreed on which government would be best. Hitler thought the 'Arians' would be best (whoever they are or were) while the other socialist thought the 'soviet man' would be the best. Somehow or other history has proven them both wrong but there error predates both ideals. The romans held that you were to worship Caesar. Same idea just 2000 years separating them. Sadly too many people like you want to fight over labels instead of the underlying idea(l)s. Democrats in their present iteration are much closer to the tyranny the gripped Europe in the first half of the 20th century than the republicans. I am neither. A plague on both their houses BUT lets try to be intellectually honest here.
@Gloomy [b]Hitler[/b] wasn’t always Hitler. He got there by degrees. And step by step he gained a fanatical following by feeding people the lies they needed to hear. We ignore obvious similarities in those steps at our [b]peril[/b].
And in the U.S. we have more precedents than many Western countries:
In the U.S., we’ve already legally segregated people based upon race.
We’ve already experimented on people and allowed them to die based upon race. The Nazis modeled their eugenics program after [b]ours[/b]—not the other way around.
We’ve [b]already[/b] placed people in internment camps, after stripping them of their property—for no other reason than their [b]ancestry[/b]. We did this to U.S. citizens !
@Gloomy You can NOT talk sense into this person...and if his ancestry points back to being in concentration camps and fighting for their lives yet they are still a #45 fan, that alone tells me they NEVER learned a thing or dont listen worth a bit. You can defend anything because many people defended slavery and believed it was just how its suppose to be. This is whats scary and I just know we are set for a world of MASSIVE problems if this guy takes office again. A Hitler and John Gotti admirer are people this person looks up to YET his minions are okay with that and think its a good thing.
