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Evolution-denying Creationists: Why is the scientific consensus on the Germ THEORY of Disease good science but....

...the scientific consensus on the Theory of Evolution is conspiracy by non-believers or the result of scientists making fundamental mistakes?
I figure I might as well cut & paste my 'clocks' post here:



CLOCKS


Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.

Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.
Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.
The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/

Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.




If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
@Tastyfrzz
we are a pretty small piece of the picture.
Yep, an estimated 2 trillion (2X10^12) galaxies are in the observable universe, with a low estimate of 10 billion (10^10) stars per galaxy, resulting in at least 10^22 stars in the observable universe. And, from what we can tell locally, most have planets!!
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
[media=https://youtu.be/lT7I40wWYAQ]

@ElwoodBlues and it's been around for 14 plus billion years. Humans in their modern form are what? Maybe 100,000 years old and Christianity less than 2000 years! Oh yeah, the universe definitely rotates around us. I think conceit is a bit too small of a word to describe it.
@ElwoodBlues

Very good post about natural clocks. The only way to refute these is by claiming that physics used to work differently.
If one wants to make that claim on faith then so be it. But one then abandons the legitimacy of science.

Creationists these days seem loath to make that concession.
reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M
you know what they say "even a broken clock is right twice a day". its not because someone believes in a theory which makes sense that they themselves make sense. I've seen enough of your post to know that I don't have to go into the details of why the bible makes absolutely no sense. now visualize someone who reads that and thinks " wow, that totally makes sense to me", then that person disagrees with the theory of evolution because it doen't require devine intevention to explain the diversity of forms of life, is there even any surprise to wonder why thwy would like one reasonablr theory and not like another? but to answer your question, my guess is that the germ theory can be included in a creationist worldview while the theory of evolution takes god out of the equation.
@reflectingmonkey

germ theory can be included in a creationist worldview while the theory of evolution takes god out of the equation.

Yup. I think that's the genuine answer. I don't know if a creationist would give that answer but i think it's accurate none the less.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
They be the antivaxers yet think that they can "sin" most egregiously all week but be forgiven on Sunday. They're the pedophiles spreading STDs to the preteens but then making them carry the resulting children to term whether or not it kills them. But they don't just stop at the girls. They keep a Bible on a special table in their living rooms and God help the child that sets anything on top of it They can fight any argument with a verse they've memorized but don't understand. I've known too many who have been subjected to this. Just enough to stoke my cynicism.
justanothername · 51-55, M
@Tastyfrzz The church has been full of hypocrisy ever since Adam was a boy.
@Tastyfrzz

Well there are certainly a lot of hypocrites in the church.
SW-User
The Magic Wizard in the sky works in mysterious ways..
@SW-User

Amen😜
It's pretty simple.
Creationists need to find flaws in Evolutionary Theory because it challenges their faith in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament, specifically the Book of Genesis.
It would not matter how many gaps there were in the stages of evolution of hominids or any other species; Creationists would still demand ever smaller increments to link the gaps.
They forget - or don't know - that we now have the means to map RNA and DNA lineages.
They may not realise the degree to which evolution is linked to geography and climate.
Often, they are so concerned with defending their faith that they never consider studying science at uni and examining the evidence we have.
As far as I can see, it is futile to try to persuade them. After all, they have a right to believe as they do.
@hartfire

Well i suppose that really is the fundamental answer.
They apply logic and reason unevenly depending where it conflicts with their religious worldview.
@Pikachu Exactly: cherry picking, a fundamental flaw in any attempts at logic.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
Not all of them believe in germ theory, either. You know that one guy who keeps making accounts, and then saying he's never coming back? He literally thinks germ theory is a lie.
LordShadowfire · 46-50, M
@Pikachu I've heard some of them don't believe in gravity. The justification is that since the world is flat, and there's no such thing as outer space, things naturally fall down toward the bottom, and it has nothing to do with spatial curvature.
@LordShadowfire

Yup. There's no gravitational force pulling towards the center of mass, it's just velocity of the disc of the earth flying upwards!
AbbySvenz · F
“Bouancy” 🙄@Pikachu

 
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