@LordShadowfire I don't hate it at all. I have read it and can't find anywhere in the entire Constitution that establishes or condones any area where a lawbreaker can claim "Ollie Ollie in Free" and be exempt from arrest. No matter what "curb side lawyers" may shout.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
@bowman81 But then due process means lawbreakers are entitled to at least a hearing, are they not ? Masked men snatching up people off the streets (without bothering to check legal status), doesn’t that sound like what we were always told "other countries" did, while we have a Constitution that protects us ?
@bijouxbroussard It has to be a legal arrest. The arrest is part of due process. After the arrest they are brought before an appropriate magistrate. That is for all arrests. Someone who entered illegally and has been flying under the radar is a poor candidate to be released again. There are local courts, state courts, and federal courts. The Federal courts are superior. When lower courts refuse to cooperate and turn over wanted persons, agents of the higher court (ICE) can and will arrest those persons. (Even the lower court judges if they interfere and obstruct.)
Bottom line is someone who is here illegally is subject to arrest anywhere and anytime they are in this country.
@bowman81 You are ignoring the fact that legal citizens are being arrested as illegal immigrants and shipped out before they can get before a judge. You are also ignoring the fact that the Fifth Amendment states EVERYBODY gets due process, not just the people you like.
@LordShadowfire I am ignoring nothing. If a legal resident is shipped out without a hearing that is wrong. It has nothing to do with whether I like someone or not.
To follow your line of reasoning if a LEO was to stop a driver, who failed to produce a driver's license or ID, and noted he was intoxicated, he would have to let him drive on his/her merry way because he hadn't a warrant or been adjudicated a drunk driver yet.
If an armed robber were fleeing the scene of a robbery/shooting the LEO couldn't arrest him because he didn't have a warrant or been adjudicated yet.
A person in this country illegally is subject to arrest at any time. The arrest is part of the process. The rest of the process is where things are failing if we ship legal residents without a hearing. That is an aberration not the norm.
@bowman81 With this administration specifically it’s the spirit in which they’re going after people. They’re less likely to be checking expired visas, whose owners are also here illegally. They’re physically detaining people based upon a profile that they have of who the president has stated isn’t supposed to be here, and in the process, they’ve made some major mistakes.
At my sister’s party recently I was speaking with one of her friends, an immigration attorney here. Some of the things he was telling us that have been happening to people (even some U.S. citizens) in ICE’s zeal to bring in "illegals" for Trump have been pretty frightening. 🥺
I am ignoring nothing. If a legal resident is shipped out without a hearing that is wrong. It has nothing to do with whether I like someone or not.
You are ignoring plenty if you think it's not happening. There was a very respectable gentleman in Newberg, Oregon (only about 15 minutes from where I live, if you're wondering how I know this) who ran a winery servicing business for 20 years without incident. ICE came along and alleged that he had a DUI charge on his record. Yamhill County had no such record. The state of Oregon had no such record. And might I add, he was legally in the country. He had obtained his citizenship. He was arrested this past June and deported. His name is Moises Sotelo, and his only crime was being a Mexican.
To follow your line of reasoning if a LEO was to stop a driver, who failed to produce a driver's license or ID, and noted he was intoxicated, he would have to let him drive on his/her merry way because he hadn't a warrant or been adjudicated a drunk driver yet.
I never said they shouldn't arrest people for being in the country illegally. But what is happening is that people are showing up to court to fight their citizenship cases and being arrested as they arrive to defend themselves, then deported without being permitted to appear. That's to say nothing of the thousands of legal citizens like Moises Sotelo who are suddenly having their citizenship revoked for BS reasons. But since you aren't ignoring anything, you totally knew that already, right?
@LordShadowfire lost citizenship without a hearing? Oh, you just don't agree with the outcome of the hearing. I don't know the particulars of every case and I dare say neither do you. If the arrests are legal I am all for them.
@bowman81 I love how you claim to know what happens in these cases right before saying nobody knows what happens in these cases. You would eat your cake, then have it.
@LordShadowfire I have been trying hard not to make this personal. You asked if we approved of arrests at the courthouse and I gave you my answer. I also gave you my reasons. You are unlikely to agree with me any more than I am with you. That doesn't make either of us hateful, prideful, arrogant or stupid. It just means we disagree. We can do that without personal attacks can't we?
@bowman81 I haven't attacked you. I'm pointing out that your argument is bad. In the same comment, you posted that you know for a fact those people got their due process, and then said nobody can know what's going on.
It is my experience that people who have been caught in a poor argument often claim that it is a personal attack to point out what's wrong with that argument, rather than learning from it. Yet I, fool that I am, keep trying to help people improve their debating skills.
