Lifestyle & Interests > Countries

Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

defending ukraine

as a mere by stander too what is going on in ukraine at the moment and a mere layman does anyone know why this idea the european union and starmer are floating will work .i am talking about at an agreed ceasefire in ukraine do these european ministers think for one second russia will let them put an peace keeping force under the flag of the european union on ukraine soil that arealso nato countries .much we all want too see this war end this idea is so unrealistic from the start and would never be acceptable in russian eyes

Top | New | Old

ninalanyon · 61-69, T

Whether this specific idea works or not is beside the point I think. We have to start somewhere. The US executive (not the people) has become an oligarchy interested only in its own self-aggrandisement. It is more interested in what it sees as approval from other 'strong' men than in doing good or sensible things. For at least the next four years we cannot expect much cooperation from there.

So Europe must look to its own defence. One thing that seems certain is that if Putin takes Ukraine he will simply be emboldened to 'take back' other territory that was formerly under Russian control or influence. The obvious targets are the Baltic states and Moldova. I don't think Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia would feel safe either.

Of course Putin won't live for ever but his obvious successors aren't likely to be any less expansionist.

I had hoped to live out my life without a major war on my doorstep but I am becoming steadily more pessimistic.

Punches · 46-50, F

@ninalanyon In France, president Macron is wanting to increase defense spending because he is not counting on the USA to have their backs. He knows that if or when Russia takes over Ukraine, Europe could be next to be invaded. Especially being right there at the border.

Strangely, the French people are not happy about this future military spending. They think, for whatever reason, that Putin would not be interested in France or other European countries.

Trump and putin CANNOT be trusted. Yet, the gullible masses in France AND America think those two dictators can be.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

Starmer and Macron are effectively sidelined in the negotiations.

For me, they are just virtue signaling. They know that these plans would be rejected by both Trump and Putin but would be popular with their own electorates.

Britain especially has relied on their American ally to assist them in military affairs for a long time. For example, the British military has always just used US satellite reconesnce. They will always be in our side so why so double the work, right?

Unfortunately, Ukraine is getting royally screwed by the Trump regime and there is little they can do about it.

Europe needs to completely decouple it's defense and security states from America.

This comment is hidden. Show Comment

JamesBugman · 56-60, T

@Burnley123 Yes, and Canada as well. We cannot rely on the US for assistance if Russia crosses the North Pole.

ArtieKat · M

@smiler2012 The proposed peacekeeping force of British, French etc is dependent solely on a ceasefire agreement. It's unlikely that there will be one - for all Putin's bravado Russia is on the bones of its arse. I think that if the USA withdraws its forces from Europe then Europe will actually access the capital itself (not just the interest) of frozen Russian assets to arm Ukraine. This, I believe, is what scares Russia itself - and probably Trump too because he can't deliver on any grubby backroom deal he may have done. As @sarabee1995 has said in a number of posts, the US armed forces take an oath of allegiance to the Constitution not to the President.

View 2 more replies »

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@sarabee1995 There was a dictator 80 years ago who changed the military's oath of allegiance from loyalty to the nation to loyalty to him personally.

Nobody expected that - until it happened.

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@newjaninev2 But today's military here in the US would never accept that. Our entire officer corps (of which I am a part) is extensively trained on the concept of legal and illegal orders and the supremacy of the Constitution. A change like that in the oath of office would never be tolerated.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@sarabee1995 There are many changes that americans will be taught to tolerate. Those changes will be gradual (at first) and will be introduced under multiple guises.

JamesBugman · 56-60, T

US sits in rooms with Russia to make a deal.
Russia gets Ukraine, US will not interfere.
US gets Greenland, Russia will not interfere.
Russia attacks Europe once they have recovered from Ukraine invasion, US won't assist.
US invades Canada, Russia will not interfere. Europe is too busy with Russia to help Canada
Only thing that is a problem is A) can't be done in 4 years B) tRump is already senile, will not survive the term needed, will Vance take over? C) Need to throw out the Constitution and rewrite it to suit his agenda. D) China and India might be problems since they have massive populations, perhaps nuke both countries?

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

@JamesBugman A and B don't matter, because is merely the clown being used to distract the masses.

C is already in play.

D will definitely be interesting in terms of warfare by other means e.g. China already controls all of Asia's water.

This message was deleted by its author.

View 3 more replies »

This message was deleted by its author.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@ElwoodBlues I agree with a lot of what you say but not the Chamberlain analogy. .

Chamberlain was a naive but well-intentioned man who tried to prevent war and was proved wrong by history. He was a Conservative but his motivations were about preventing the horrors of another great European War.

Trump leads a team of heartless robber barons who have no care about anything that happens in Europe apart from their own profit opportunities.

ElwoodBlues · M

@MarmeeMarch asks

So exactly what are we talking about here - an old treaty that we have abided by or a new one that is talking about minerals

I'm talking about a three-way treaty known as the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. Signed by both Russia and the US in 1994, re-affirmed in 2009, under Putin. Not old at all.

Essentially, Ukraine agreed to give up all its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for safety from a U.S. or Russian invasion. Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates that treaty. And as a signatory to that 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the U.S. has a definite interest in righting Putin's current wrongs.

In the final version of the deal, Russia promised not to attack Ukraine. While the U.S. and the U.K. assured Ukraine they would aid if it was attacked by Russia, that promised aid did not guarantee military support like a NATO country would receive.

In 2009, Russia and the U.S. announced that the assurances in the Budapest Memorandum would continue to remain in effect in the future.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/global-conflicts/ukraine-agreed-to-give-up-nukes-in-exchange-for-safety-from-russia-invasion-attack-budapest-memorandum-treaty/536-8748a51f-10ee-47f0-be30-b4088750ee44

Russia promised specifically NOT to invade Ukraine, and the U.S. promised specifically to ASSIST Ukraine if the treaty were ever violated. And that's what the U.S. had been doing until Tяump decided to shred the treaty and switch to appeasement.

@Burnley123 Point taken, Tяump is a far worse person than Chamberlain, my focus is on appeasement.

HootyTheNightOwl

Doubtful... Putin only wants to negotiate with the US - and the US only cares about itself in this... so, what chance does it realistically have???

Roundandroundwego · 61-69

The Ukraine conflict was engineered by the Americans advancing NATO, and installing the current anti Russia government in Ukraine, then arming the conflict to keep it hot.
Europe wants to continue the war, and intends to shift away from funding social welfare to funding weapons and war.
The USA under Trump sees it as a finished project - Europe takes down socialism and shows its fangs, the population is very poor and still learns nothing in the EU - Trump's right to dump losers.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F

Nobody cares what russia thinks about anything

Add a comment...