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Why does Zelenskyy invoke tragic events?

Since Russia invaded Ukraine in February, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has invoked the Holocaust to Israel, the Blitz to the British Parliament, Pearl Harbour to the U.S Congress, and the Berlin Wall to the German Bundestag. The most inappropriate comparison has definitely been the Holocaust, because this was not a war or an attack on a nation for political reasons. Jewish people were systematically targeted by the Nazis and there was absolutely no provocation for it, and nothing they could do about it. As I have said to people in my post about Ukraine, in a war you are presented with choices...you can choose to fight, or you can choose to surrender. If you surrender, the general rule is that your army and your people will no longer be under attack. Even if they have to live under an oppressive government, they are still *not* going to be subjected to mass murder in the way that Jewish people were during the Holocaust.

It seems to me that Zelenskyy will just use whatever tragic event he can with the intention of targeting his specific audience with it. This is obviously because he wants to get something out of them (e.g military equipment, financial aid, etc.) but it's so incredibly disingenuous. I think his thoughts on the Holocaust in particular are testament to how so many former Soviet (yes, I know it doesn't exist now but the mentality still does) Jews still view the Holocaust. I know that many in Ukraine and in other former Soviet States do recognize the horror for what it was...there are some who just don't though. I see Zelenskyy as more of a Ukrainian nationalist than as someone whose great-grandparents perished because they were Jews. His grandfather and other family members were allowed by the Soviets to join the Soviet Army.

In Ukraine, because of a combination of Soviet policies and Ukrainian nationalism, there historically hasn't been that much openness about the Holocaust and how Jewish people were slaughtered en masse simply for being Jews. They were told that all people in Eastern Europe suffered, and that the Nazis killed everyone. They were made to believe, or at least say they believed, that there was nothing unique to Jewish suffering. I think if Zelenskyy had a greater awareness and didn't prioritize nationalism over basic historical realities, he could never have used the Holocaust as a comparison to what is presently happening in Ukraine. It's genuinely beyond comprehension that he did.

Back to the wider point I am making though, it isn't right or fair to go to other nations and bring up unfortunate events they have had in recent history just to get your own way.

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HootyTheNightOwl

LMFAO!!!

Just how much do you know about Russia... and, more importantly, the USSR???

I suggest that you do some research about life in the former USSR and learn about what it was truly like back then... then look at what life is like in Russia today.

Ukraine as a country doesn't exactly have much going for it, with the fact that they're still dealing with Chernobyl - a nuclear power plant explosion that was hidden from their own people and the wider world until it was detected in Sweden and America flew over to see what was going on because the world couldn't get answers from the USSR. For three days, people were simply told that there were "unfavourable conditions" at the power plant and that they were to stay indoors. They even held a street parade on May 1st that year, just a few days after the nuclear disaster. Would you like to go out, knowing what the radiation levels must have been, having seen your fathers, brothers and sons leave home but not come back???

You have no idea what's happened because there's a media blackout going on and you are unable to leave your city. If you're lucky, your family, friends and neighbours are telling you about a fire at the power plant.

In time, the official death toll is logged at 12 firefighters who died trying to fight the fire that night... there's no mention of all the people who went on to get radiation sickness from being out there at the time of the explosion or those who lost their lives trying to treat the irradiated people - never mind those who developed cancer because of radiation exposure or the women forced to have abortions to try to reduce the number of still births and birth abnormalities.

The Ukraine people are still looking at the censorship going on in Russia in 2022 - Russians can't even refer to the war as a war without getting fifteen years in prison.

Can you blame the people of Ukraine for refusing to die and be annexed back into the USSR once again???

Let's just say for a moment that Ukraine did roll over and accept defeat... do you think that Putin will stop at that??? Where we have to be careful is that there are EU countries next to Ukraine... in the event that Russia does continue it's offensive, there's a chance that other countries could be drawn into war, too.

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SW-User

@SW-User

His answer is thoughtful, your reply is childish.

Seriously? There is not one thoughtful thing about their answer.

HootyTheNightOwl

@SW-User I see no point in further discourse on the issue. You have already demonstrated your inability to consider valid points raised in my initial post in which I highlighted repression within the USSR and pointed out that Russia still hasn't changed in 2022, since Russian citizens are being thrown into jail for 15 years for speaking out against the war or even calling it the war that it is.

Instead of considering the two examples that I presented you with as examples (there are more - but I didn't want to create an essay on Russia and the USSR), you chose to brand me a troll instead.

Why do I need to consider anything that I wrote when you are the one who has no ability to consider the points that I raised before branding me a troll. To that end, it might be worth practicing what you preach before you go telling others to apply "rational and critical thought".

Obviously, other people can see what I'm getting at, so it's a shame that you are incapable of the same.

SW-User

@HootyTheNightOwl You didn't make a post, you made a "comment" on my post.

None of those points are worth addressing because they are not relevant to anything I said. I was asking why Zelenskyy considers it right to compare the war in Ukraine to the Holocaust, and also why he would use other events as a way of getting what he wants from a particular audience. These events are also upsetting ones, but none are as upsetting and unfathomably horrible as the Holocaust. So, that he used the Holocaust in the same or similar context to these events is even worse. He was trying to seek from Israel what he wanted, and used the mass slaughter of millions of innocent people to do that. I find that unforgivably bad. And yes, it was wrong to use those other events to get what he wants as well. You think he is doing it because he "has" to...he isn't. If you can justify or even support it, it means you don't recognize the significance of the words we choose to use when we need to express something. It also means that you have very limited knowledge of what the Holocaust actually entailed, which I guess applies to a lot of people sadly. Many of the responses to this post are proof of that. I guess you think it was just about some Jews (probably from Germany 🤣) who wore stripped pyjamas and stayed at Auschwitz for a few months. The worst thing about the Holocaust was that it was much more than that.

CountScrofula · 41-45, M

He's doing it for exactly the reasons you say. And importantly, it works. It is also pretty damn cynical. He's also not a Ukrainian nationalist lol. What kind of nationalist tries to join the EU.

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LegendofPeza · 56-60, M

@SW-User ' Except Ukraine does have Nazis. ' - So does Russia.

' the Azov regiment are entirely comprised of Nazis ' - After reading what I wrote earlier you still come out with a stupid , ignorant and wrong comment like that ?

There's no hope.

SW-User

@LegendofPeza lol it's a fact that the Azov regiment are Nazis. Why are you refusing to recognize the significance of that?

And, I'm talking about Zelenskyy and Ukraine...not Russia. You are intentionally trying to deflect from what I have said and I am not going to further indulge it. So, to go back to what I originally said, is it right for Zelenskyy to compare the war in Ukraine to the Holocaust and to use tragic and unfortunate events from other countries to further his agenda? What do you think the moral implications are to that, especially with regard to his Holocaust comparison?

Emiliomarti · 70-79, M

@LegendofPeza
It is true- Regiment Azov was made up of convinced nazis..fully recognized by the Ukranian Army.
I said 'was' ..cause once again, after Stalingrad, Azov nazis surrendered even without fighting by the Red (Russian) Army. Must be a destiny. They were good only in making tattoes on their bodies. They deserve a new Nurberg process for all the crimes that they did

Budwick · 70-79, M

Unfortunate events? I think you maybe have a burr under your saddle about Ukraine or Zelensky. Russia's attack on Ukraine has been brutal and unforgivable. You jumping on Zelensky for comparing his countries loss to the Holocaust to make a point is equally unforgivable.

SW-User

@Budwick No it's not, idiot.

SW-User

@Budwick I agree.

Budwick · 70-79, M

@SW-User

I agree.

With me? Or, dumass?

SW-User

He has a responsibility to keep the war in people's minds and at the forefront of the news agenda. If he uses dramatic language, imagery etc, in order to do that, then i think he is absolutely right to do so.

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SW-User

@SW-User No, I suggest you read carefully my words: do you think it is right to compare the war in Ukraine to the Holocaust?

Yes or no? Answer the question.

SW-User

@SW-User I have answered your ridiculous question…please read and REFLECT on what i said. Your argument is fatuous,,,sometimes it is best to move on when your intellect is not sufficient to the task.

SW-User

@SW-User Except you didn't answer it, because I wanted an answer in simple terms. I will assume that you do think this war is as bad as the Holocaust in every respect then.

And now, you're getting blocked.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

His target audience for this is not his own people but western people and governments. He's trying to get the west to take a more active military role in the conflict. This might be understandable but it's also wrong. Agree with what you say about the Holocaust and memory.

There is real tragedy in this for the experienced of the Ukrainian people. It's far worse actually than what Brits suffered under the blitz.

NATO won't intervene more heavily than it has done and nor should it given the very real danger of escalation to nuclear war.

My impression is that NATO powers are happy for the war to continue because it is weakening Russia. That is a priority well above the lives of the Ukrainians Though Putin doesn't want the. conflict to end now anyway because he believes his own conspiracy theories. A negotiated peace will have to happen at some point but the terms of that peace will be determined by the 'facts on the ground' that are still being fought over.

EarthlingWise

Indeed, nothing tragic is happening in Ukraine, right?

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SW-User

@LegendofPeza 🤣 That article is fucking hilarious.

It's like, "the Azov regiment who were Nazis have undergone much transformation and are suddenly no longer Nazis since the war broke out...let's all hail the Azov regiment and their non-Nazi beliefs!"

You think Russia is full of propaganda...Ukraine is exactly the same. Also if you read the articles I linked properly you will see that Bennett made it abundantly clear that he strongly disapproved of what Zelenskyy said.

I personally believe that it is forbidden to equate the Holocaust to anything - Naftali Bennett March 2022.

To add to the historical context, it's laughable that Zelenskyy thinks that Israel should treat Ukrainians as they treated Jewish people in the Holocaust. They'd be begging for Putin if Israel did that.

LegendofPeza · 56-60, M

@SW-User You didn't even read it.

SW-User

@LegendofPeza Yeah, I did. Do you really think that Azov aren't still far-right extremists? Or did you just agree with them to begin with?

Valerian · 100+, M

Sadly, especially with Media Happily using it in their News Feeds and having it in anyone's and everyone's faces constantly, Politicians, Big Wigs, Organizations and the "Famous" ALL & Always

will just use whatever tragic event he (they) can with the intention of targeting specific audience with it.

As long as it's Easy and Fits Their Agenda!

Trust me, if the Government of Birmingham was about to Confiscate Your Home Without Warning and your Protest were feeble, I imagine that Your Tactics might be Nearly the Same!

Sometimes, desperation requires more than a letter to the newspaper.

Emiliomarti · 70-79, M

I agree..Apart from Shoa declaration..I don't want the 3rd W.W to please a comedian

faithfulhusband · C

id do the same thing in his position

SW-User

@faithfulhusband Then perhaps you don't know what happened in the Holocaust.

Ryannnnnn · 31-35, M

Tbh it probably feels as bad for those people and it is horrific. Yeah they need military support, it's his job to garner support.

SW-User

@Ryannnnnn

Tbh it probably feels as bad for those people

No.

Ryannnnnn · 31-35, M

@SW-User 👍

LegendofPeza · 56-60, M

Maybe he should have just surrendered then instead.

SW-User

@LegendofPeza What does that have to do with what I have said?

LegendofPeza · 56-60, M

@SW-User ' in a war you are presented with choices...you can choose to fight, or you can choose to surrender. If you surrender, the general rule is that your army and your people will no longer be under attack.'

SW-User

@LegendofPeza I was pointing out the difference between the war in Ukraine and the Holocaust.

Tres13 · 51-55, M

China,India,Iran,Africa knows the game he’s playing
A failing & corupt comedian

LegendofPeza · 56-60, M

@Tres13 The entire continent of Africa ?

Tres13 · 51-55, M

The song Africa @LegendofPeza

rrraksamam · 31-35, M

Now this is a post I didn't expect to see.

I wonder where all the armchair political experts are right now

YourMomsSecretCrush · M

He is a politician....... And politicians do what they do........ they manipulate.

DDonde · 31-35, M

A lot of your takes on Ukraine seem to be "Why, why, why don't the Ukrainians just give in already?" "C'moooonnnnn"

SW-User

@DDonde Yeah, and? Tell me why you think that's a problem. Also, if you disagree with this post...can you articulate why?

Glassysky · 26-30, M

Fuck Zelenskky and Ukraine

SW-User

@Glassysky lol

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