@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout Now now, Zikavirus was never alleged to be a big threat to life... but it was threatening to make a generation with mental deficiencies...
I'm not sure how they grew up so fast, but that's editorializing for a different day.
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout and 260K, and rising, US deaths in less than a year are nothing? Or are you saying it was the fear and not the virus that killed them? Have you never seen someone on a ventilator struggling to survive, with a vadculitis that is producing multi-organ damage? I hope you never have to face what medical care providers see daily.
@samueltyler2 While, yes, I have had COVID, and a pretty bad case at that, and I cannot be for sure that I didn't nearly die, I agree with @TheOneyouwerewarnedabout that fear and panic are dealier for our [i][b][c=#003BB2]SOCIETY[/c][/b][/i]. And while individual people should avoid the current plague like the... plague I think the best approach to such emergencies is a level head, across the board level heads. If everyone took the panic out then I think we'd get farther, and more people would just simply do what was necessary to stop the virus. It is an equal panic that makes people not wear masks and sanitize often; instead of just doing the things they need to do they worry -- fervently -- about who is watching, how cool they look and whether they will be accepted.
@xmedleft I don't know what you phrase as "the panic?" The public needs to know the dangers, they need to wear masks, they need to avoid crowded circumstances. If you know how to better get that out than is being currently done by those who are really trying to prevent more deaths, then we are all open to hear your suggestions. We have been forced to listen to nonsense from some of our political leaders for too long. This has split the nation further, politicized a pandemic, and has been instrumental in preventing appropriate reaction.
@samueltyler2 Oh I totally agree that the "leadership" fucked us right out of the gate. And that politicization is part of the panic I refer to. One side wanted to hush hush to avoid panic -- but I think they knew that when the truths came trickling out it would only lead to some of those they wanted to "soothe" flipping over to panic... you know, a wildly variable reaction. I think that some of Trump's people even knew that if they try to squash what they should have been telling us about the pandemic, that the democrats would almost HAVE to take the other extremes -- to act and speak with an urgency that was panic-inducing -- just to hope to create an average reaction in society that evened out somehow. Yet we are back at no paper towels and no rubbing alcohol!
@xmedleft we agree with most, except thstbthe leading scientists in the country are not politicians. Their warnings are based on science and the knowledge of epidemiology. I sat on every state disaster planning committee that met after tyev1993 attack on the World Trade Centers. Before H1N1 hit, we have very extensively researched and developed plans about how to respond appropriately, based on science and epidemiology. A new governor, who felt all of this unnecessary both eliminated our planning group, all of us were volunteers and were unpaid, and the plans vanished. This is similar to what I understand happened federally. The lessons were "unlearned," and had to be released under the influence of a POTUS who felt he knew more than anyone else in the world.
At this point, the pandemic is a wildfire, spreading so rapidly, partly because of no uniform approach to dealing with it on the basis of what we know scientifically and based on over 100 years of understanding epidemiology. If there is panic, it is because of the realization that it is as if we are onboard a fast moving train without an engineer. There is the usual run for basic supplies as there is before all storms. If only we could get everyone to wear masks and shelter in place as much as possible, we might be able to gain some ground and flatten the curve, before our medical care non-system completely imploded!
Perhaps the long range outcome will be a serious look at the need for developing a true universal medical care system and supporting public health and preventive medicine!
@samueltyler2 And actually we agree on that. i had only discussed the political front, and I call it "front" deliberately, becasue the lead conservatives decided that if they yell loudly enough that no one will get through that front to hear what the science community had to say. This I have found in my research; Near the end of the Bush (Jr.) administration certain scientists and advisors determined that the next big threat to the US would likely be a serious plague. They did a lot of research on the 1918 and 1870s epidemics and bolstered their ideas that a major plague was due and that something was needed in terms of policy. They ran out of time. They did however pass on what they found to the next administration ... meaning cooperation was more in the country's interest than letting someone get slammed and take a political fall. The Obama administration picked up the research and created a set of policies that they DID IMPLEMENT. It became a playbook and was used to get out in front of the H1N1 problem and the Ebola problem and in both cases it was somewhat successful. The US never ha a significant crisis with Ebola, probably a much worse disease than COVID, because the plan was to fight it off our shores, send the doctors and medicines necessary, but fight it there (western Africa), not here -- but get ready for it to come here (wet-rooming certain hospitals). This playbook -- discussed by the Bush admin, created and implemented by the Obama administration -- was likely destroyed by the Trump administration, was certainly ignored. Following the plans used to combat Ebola, we would have sent a large contingent of medical personnel to Wuhan right at the outbreak and I don't think there was anyway Trump was going to send anyone to help China, even if in their incredible gratitude they would have done their part to relax tensions.
@xmedleft you know most of the facts. We actually HAD a CDC group in China which the administration withdrew! We also know that there was a strange influenza-like illness in the US in December and January, that was influenza a and b negative, but no one put it together with the outbreaks in China and Italy so it featured, until it broke out in massive, undeniable numbers in March! I can yell you for myself, I tried to get 5 people evaluated for viral influenza-like illnesses and was laughed at. I warned my local Health Department on March 9 that they need to help the local chronic care facilities prepare for an outbreak, and all they did was call and speak to the administrator, didn't review a pandemic plan, did not check preparedness. I even told them that I will hold them responsible for any deaths. I am now being charged with harassment! Guess who my town voted for in the election?
@samueltyler2 I can guess. Your contact with the health department was March 9, My state started 1st lockdown March 13. However our governor is a DOCTOR, and former military.
@xmedleft Actually, I was trying to interact with the state health dept in mid january. I had a friend, a couple, who had been in Italy in Dec and earlyJan. and came down with a terrible "flu syndrome," but after I forced them to go to be tested, were found not to have flu, and I asked for the state to test them for other viruses, we were refused! Imagine if they might have had covid and the presence found, what might have been prevented! We were in Afric in Febuary and I tried to keep in contact with the state health department but they were not really geared up for anything. We returned to the US on March 7th and I had a local Board of Health, of which I am a member, meeting on March 9th, that is when I started getting voistrous about the outbreak, no one listened. I don't remember when the state strated to get serious. I was on a conference call about testing ain mid March, I asked about false negatives, reflecting that my ER/IU colleagues reported at least a 305 false negative reate, the state denied any knowledge of that! So there was widespread refusal to take things seriously enough.
@samueltyler2 From the couple in Italy bringing in it sounds like you could be in Virginia. The 1st couple of cases we had in my region were a case from Italu then a case from Egypt. Ah, I remember it so well, the days it could be tracked so easily and individuals with it made the news...
@xmedleft I lived my academic career making the "experts" in the health department eat their words on many diagnoses I made. I can't really believe, in retrospect, how they denied my requests.
