Where do you think Judas went after he betrayed Jesus and committed suicide?

@Adstar Who are [b]we[/b] to judge that?? Only God knows that . That's [b]not[/b] an impossibility. The Bible doesn't say one way or the other. Have you not ever known someone to be so sorrowful and grieved over what they did that they went out and killed themselves? We don't know that Judas did not cry to God forgive me!!!....before he hung himself.

@LadyGrace if you have time read my answer above please. I respect your opinion and knowledge on the subject and would like to hear what you think. Thank you

@LadyGrace you are suggesting that that we can get pre forgiven for a sin we are about to commit?? Obviously I differ in opinion here. I have trouble also at my church that people have been lied to believe they can treat people anyway they want say for financial gain, and ask week long they cheat people then Saturday to go to confession repent do their penance go to Mass receive Christ then Monday morning go back to cheating their fellow man because next Saturday they can be forgiven again take communion then start again. There has to be a change of behavior I would think for apologies and forgiveness. The words or just going through the motion is not penance. You ask forgiveness and sin no more if you want the creators forgiveness. But all intelligent beings have reasoning. Man's ability to reason would be greater than a dogs but not as much as an angel for example. So man can feel bad later on and regret his actionsand ask God for forgiveness and receive it but angels are so far advanced than man that they they don't sin they rebel against God and that's why Satan will never be forgiven. Plus fallen angels would not ask for forgiveness any way so they couldn't be forgiven. Therefore it's not a matter of can He forgive it's a matter of the fallen angels never asking. Did I say that hmmm... Thoughts?

@kentex35 [quote]you are suggesting that that we can get pre forgiven for a sin we are about to commit??[/quote]

Heanens no. Read my full reply to you, just posted. Thanks.

@kentex35 [quote]So man can feel bad later on and regret his actionsand ask God for forgiveness and receive it but angels are so far advanced than man that they they don't sin they rebel against God and that's why Satan will never be forgiven.[/quote]

I love how we can discuss these important issues and I love seeing different opinions, like yourself. Thank you so much for that, brother.

I would like to mention one thing and that is that angels can absolutely sin because the Bible says they have free will, just like we do, and that's why Lucifer chose to rebel against God and try to take over heaven. And that is what caused his fall along with all the other angels that he coerced into believing his lies that their lives could be so much better if they took over the kingdom of God. They believed his lies. Can you just imagine how Satan probably used the same lie that he used in the Garden of Eden, that Adam and Eve could be like God, if they would listen to, and follow him, Satan. Satan always makes lies appear to be not that big of a deal and fun! So much so, that people and angels don't even worry about the consequences nor think of them.

According to scripture, I believe that anyone can be forgiven, the question is, if they want to be forgiven, but as you mentioned, Satan does not want to be forgiven and so he will never be forgiven. He had a chance and he blew it and he's not even wanting to change his mind and repent. He's so wrapped up in Pride and ego in himself, the only thing he's worried about is snatching Souls from the Lord as he knows this is the most damaging Revenge he could get and he's only out to hurt the Lord as bad as he can. That is the one thing that Grieves the Lord's heart the most, is to lose Souls.

@LadyGrace with the angels, and I just recently got into it that the angels are so far in advance of humans plus living in such close proximity to the Creator they know what their job is and that's to praise God and help humans praise God that's all and being so advanced when they sin, it's more of a rebellion to God they know more so about what they are about to do when they sin. At man's levels he's allowed to feel bad and have a change of heart repent etc but not Angels they are too intelligent and advanced, (they've been around almost forever literally) and they know all they do is doing praises and joy to God in return they get to live with God in heaven forever more. I got a little redundant there in not saying I'm exactly right just another way I suppose to look at it. Satan will Lucifer was perfect at one time as the story goes but not quite God,beautiful in appearance and acknowledged by all the other angels. But somewhere along the lines he wants to be worshiped like God and be as powerful.. butt he got pride or something and Lucifer became Satan and his good looks stayed behind too. I'm going to stop here before I get another run on sentence repeating myself.
Good answer by you above we're in the ball park with our beliefs. Or understanding, excuse me I have to say you are far more advanced than I am. I went to a church school for 10.5 years and pretty much has religion class everyday. I've sent many a Moonie or witness on their way. And anything in between long ago. I have fallen away from church long ago I got to minimalize my beliefs. Never evangelized but maybe it's my age but I want to get back to the church. And I will go back to what I'm used to. Even though I consider myself progressive. I probably believe the Constitution separation of church and state is acceptable to God. Render unto Caesar his and unto God what is God's . Some will argue with me but I believe I can be anti abortion and stand up for freedom of choice. That for another day perhaps

@kentex35 I've got a headache but I'll read the rest later. I love seeing what you have to say and your thoughts.

The angels and us are the same as far as God giving us and them a free will and that means choice. They still have choice and they know evil yes but they can also choose evil if that's what they want to do. Obviously they can be tempted by Lucifer and were. That hasn't changed, and the significance of looking at the whole picture is that there is no evil in heaven and people get that mixed up, and I don't mean you. God never created evil. The Bible never said Satan is perfect. There's not one verse that I know of that says Lucifer was perfect. It did say he was the most beautiful angel in heaven, as you have said, but here's where the evil part comes in. The Bible says that God never created evil, but evil was found in Satan's heart! In other words he [b]chose[/b] to be evil.

I have a headache. I'll answer this later. Thank you.