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"Progressive" Christians be like

"Noooo, you're so ignorant! The Bible doesn't say to kill homosexuals! It's a translation error, it actually says we should kill child rapists and also the raped child - surely you agree with that?! Being gay or trans isn't a sin! It says sodomites (meaning anyone having sex in any position other than vaginal - penis to vagina - which includes queer people as those are literally unable to have that kind of sex) and effeminate men (meaning gender non-conforming men and possibly also trans women) won't go to heaven if they don't repent! See what a wonderful, progressive religion Christianity is???"
[quote]Noooo, you're so ignorant! The Bible doesn't say to kill homosexuals![/quote]

Yes it does.

[quote]It's a translation error, it actually says we should kill child rapists and also the raped child - surely you agree with that?! [/quote]

It's not a translation error. Do people actually say that? The Bible doesn't say we should kill anyone.

[quote]Being gay or trans isn't a sin![/quote]

Yes it is. Being human is a sin.

[quote] It says sodomites (meaning anyone having sex in any position other than vaginal - penis to vagina - which includes queer people as those are literally unable to have that kind of sex) and effeminate men (meaning gender non-conforming men and possibly also trans women) won't go to heaven if they don't repent![/quote]

Not many people go to heaven. Physically no one goes to heaven. Most people won't go to heaven. 144,000 people of all the people who've ever lived will go to heaven in spirit form. The Bible does say that of the 144,000 going to heaven none of them have been with a woman. Some misinterpret that to mean that the 144,000 are gay men only but that is absurd. It means none were ever a part of false religion. False religions are metaphorically referred to as prostitutes.

[quote]See what a wonderful, progressive religion Christianity is???[/quote]

I suppose in a sense that is true. To the Sodomites and other gentiles around ancient Israel keeping catamites (young boy temple prostitutes), pedophilia, homosexuality and beastiality were commonly accepted. To the Greeks and many Native Americans pederasty was commonly accepted. So you think we are going forward or backward?
Emosaur · 22-25, M
@TheoreticSkeptic [quote]Everyone is religious. Even you.[/quote]

Ah yes, an irreligious atheist like me can definitely also be religious. More proof that Christians don't know what contradictions are.
@Emosaur If an irreligious theist like me can also be religious I don't see why an irreligious atheist couldn't pull it off. If, for a moment, your ideological pretensions would evaporate in a puff of logic and you start to see you may realize that religion, just being a strict adherence to a specific set of principles - COMPLETELY WITHIN YOUR OWN CONTROL AND WITHOUT TRADITIONAL THEISM - has been and is practiced by every human being who ever lived, individually or collectively, then . . . and only then . . . you might be freed from the prisons you've created in your own feeble mind. BECAUSE that feeble personal incarnation IS your religion.

You, my daft little loquacious sage, desperately need an update.
Emosaur · 22-25, M
@TheoreticSkeptic [quote]If an irreligious theist like me can also be religious I don't see why an irreligious atheist couldn't pull it off.[/quote]

An "irreligious theist" is a deist, assuming you mean someone who believes in (a) higher power(s) without following a religion, but "religious" and "irreligious" are direct opposites which cannot both apply. But I know that's difficult, if not impossible for you to grasp.



[quote]You, my daft little loquacious sage, desperately need an update.[/quote]

And you need a punch straight in your face so your brain might start working properly.
Scribbles · 31-35, F
I think people have a right to be angry at Christianity for the seemingly endless shit it's caused and still causes and condones. I also think people have a right to be angry at Islam for the same thing. I think people have a right to be angry about anything that is systemically oppressive, exploitative, and hurtful in society. And that's a loooong list of things I have regarding that!

That being said...I am in support of those Christian and Islamic groups that accept reality and think of their holy books as mostly historical allegory and not as a literal truth and guide. I'm a big fan of Stephen Fry, and I'm on board with him in alot of ways.

I have left Christianity several times, because I didn't want to support it. I saw hateful crap, and cult like beliefs in it, and in people...
I currently do go to Church sometimes, not often. Because part of me still believes in God, simply because I want to believe in an afterlife where I get to see loved ones again. Idk, why I still do. But I do. It troubles me a lot. Because like Stephen Fry, if God exists, I'm very very angry at him.
But I'm also glad to be alive, idk. It's a weird state of being.

I go to church more because I enjoy the opportunity to have conversations about things and to change Christians minds about hating and discriminating against groups, and try to get them to vote democrat. There are a lot of Christians that simply vote for whatever aligns with traditional beliefs that they grew up being told to do and believe, and alot of them are conflicted about it, because it also feels wrong to them. Which is good. People should question things. People should change and people absolutely need to root out the problems caused by fundamental Christianity.

I'm supportive of any form of religion, and any form of Christianity and Christian, who is willing to stand up to the bible and God, and say Hey, that's wrong. I will choose to love and support people and not discriminate and hate them. People should not blindly follow a holy book to decide everything for themselves and others. I want to be someone who encourages change. Idk

P.s. I think a lot of Christians don't understand the historical and cultural perspective on passages regarding LGBTQ+ in the bible.

I see it as:

It's either hateful crap and should be rejected.

Or it's Christians like Paul calling out exploitative pedophilia that was common in society (like masters violently raping slave boys) which would make sense to call that out as being morally wrong.

I have no idea what kind of Christian that makes me. :/
Emosaur · 22-25, M
@Scribbles [quote]I am in support of those Christian and Islamic groups that accept reality and think of their holy books as mostly historical allegory and not as a literal truth and guide.[/quote]

I'm not sure those exist tbh.



[quote]Because like Stephen Fry, if God exists, I'm very very angry at him.[/quote]

But here's the thing; the Abrahamic god is defined as all-loving, however such a being wouldn't allow suffering (unless doing so was loving, which it isn't), but because suffering exists the Abrahamic god can't exist.



[quote]and say Hey, that's wrong.[/quote]

But Christians can't really do that considering they believe their god is infallible.



[quote]I will choose to love[/quote]

Love is not a choice, just like many other things.
This is actually one of the most deranged things Christians believe; that everything is a choice we make with our "free will", and since their god is all-loving he'd never cause any suffering, meaning all suffering must be caused by us using our free will...
It's disgusting, honestly.



[quote]I think a lot of Christians don't understand the historical and cultural perspective on passages regarding LGBTQ+ in the bible.[/quote]

No matter how you interpret it, it's never good; conservative Christians will interpret it as killing gays, "progressive" Christians will interpret it as a condemnation of pedophilia, but completely ignoring that it says to kill BOTH people - meaning they're indirectly in favor of child murder.
Scribbles · 31-35, F
@Emosaur True, Good point. They all do profess that he's infallible and say thay the bible is fallible instead and just say that no one really knows. There are Christian churches like that. At that point are they even Christian anymore? They are basically saying we are going to worship someone we have no idea exists or what he's about because we are confused and don't like the bible much. But we're going to sort stand by some things some dude said. Kind of weird.

I do think the bible and Christianity and Christian society is very fucked up. Espeically in America. Not sure what the best thing is to do about it though, except keep trying to deradicalize people and convince them to use reason rather then blindly following rhetoric and words that condone things like child murder as you pointed out.

What do you think should be done? I recently had a discussion with someone about National Church institutions like in England, that has some control over the church. Do you think something like that could be helpful, or would it just be a bandaid on a gaping lethal wound?
JPWhoo · 31-35, MVIP
To conservative Christians Christianity is conservative. To progressive Christians it’s progressive. Most every religion has more conservative followers than progressive ones, so the conservative religious views get heard more.

Similarly, to peaceful Christians Christianity is peaceful, and to violent Christians it is violent. Most any religion is what you bring to it.
Emosaur · 22-25, M
@JPWhoo Not really; much like how you can't judge whether a song is good or bad based on how someone covered it (there are covers which are better than the original and some who are worse) you can't judge a religion purely based on how people follow it. Sure, it can give you an idea, but the only way to know the nature of a religion is to study it on your own without any indoctrination which might distort your view.
People have a right to read the bible and share ideas about it.
originnone · 56-60, M
Organized religion is like Major League Baseball - great idea bad leadership.

 
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