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RIP Pope Francis

I'm not a Catholic and aside from the music, artwork, and architecture it inspires, I don't have much use for religion in general. I certainly didn't agree with Francis in every area. But he was the first pope in my lifetime who I didn't view as an enemy. Instead of the incessant bleating over abortion, gay rights, and "society abandoning religion," Francis used his pulpit to speak out against issues like wealth inequality, climate change, and encouraged people to be kinder and more empathetic, not because "God" wanted them to, but because it was the right thing to do.

Because he took these positions, conservatives hated Francis. The latest podcast from conservative loudmouth Michael Savage is "Lenin's Pope." For the younger people reading this, this isn't normal. It's usually liberals complaining about the pope while conservatives extol him as a "voice of morality" and similar crap. So when people ask if the next pope will "continue on the path Francis began" or will be a "traditionalist," that's what they're referring to. Will the next pope be a culture war-obsessed piece of shit, or a decent human being?

Of course, this isn't up to me, it's up to the 135 members of the College of Cardinals, who are the cardinals under age 80 who will choose the next pope at the conclave in a few weeks. If it means anything, Francis appointed two-thirds of the ones who will be voting on his successor, and he typically chose to elevate bishops who shared his views. It takes a two-thirds majority to elect a pope.

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SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M

Recall that his appointment came after the resignation of Ratzenger(Pope Benedict) who was a member of "Hitlers Youth" in Nazi Germany. That and his seeming indifference to the massive sex abuse scandals enveloping the Catholic Church, Benedict resigned and Pope Francis was a "correction" appointment.

He was the first Pope from Latin America(the only large devoted Catholic group left), and he was a Jesuit.

As you say, he was very progressive for a Catholic Pope, speaking positively of gays and transgenders, as well as his focus on the poor and climate change.

Not sure where they go from here, but I agree that another Progressive Pope is likely the next one to be appointed.

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LeopoldBloom · M

@SumKindaMunster I agree that the cover up of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church over many decades was one of the worst, if not the worst scandals in the modern era. However, it's not like other denominations are blameless. We're gradually becoming aware of the scale of sexual abuse in many Protestant denominations, although that's more likely to involve adult women rather than children.

And it's not limited to religion, either. It's rampant in entertainment, business, academia - pretty much anywhere where powerful men aren't held accountable.

As a non-religious person, I judge religions based on the artwork, literature, architecture, and music that they inspire, since this is, for me, their only source of value. The Catholics have done pretty well in this area. And of course, if religion inspires people to act with benevolence toward others, that's valuable as well. And if people use religion as justification for destruction and causing others to suffer, the ones that permit that are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Northwest · M

The US conservatives began their assault on Francis and his legacy, with the Trump crew. He didn't say anything during the Melania visit, so his hillbilly surrogate took over, trying to convince Pope Francis that the hillbilly version of Catholicism is the better doctrine.

He wanted to press the issue during his meeting with the Pope, hours before he passed. The Pope did not want to meet him, but Meloni, through his contacts, managed to give him a 3-minute audience, along with his wide and his kids. The Pope used the opportunity to remind him of the Easter messages, and gave the kids 3 Easter eggs.

I see the Chief MAGA involving his MAGA VP, and Melania (for PR value) in a concentrated campaign to get a conservative Pope elected.

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LeopoldBloom · M

@Northwest He definitely has the relationships with European power centers which might make a difference. He'd be the opposite of Benedict, instead of a reclusive scholar, he'd be comfortable with heads of state and business leaders. However, as I said in another thread, all of the attention is on papabile, but Francis wasn't even thought to be in the running when he was chosen. So everyone could be surprised.

I know how the betting markets in political elections work, where you bet on Candidate A, and if he wins, you get more money back based on his odds, and if he loses you get nothing. But political elections are a zero-sum game, where everyone knows that one person in the pool of candidates will win. I'm not sure how it works if the conclave picks someone who no one bet on - does everyone lose and the house makes out?

Northwest · M

@LeopoldBloom It doesn't really matter who wins, the House always wins.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Northwest That's the vig, supposedly from the Yiddish word וויגריש ("vigorish"), borrowed from the Russian вы́игрыш ("vygrys" meaning "winnings").

ElwoodBlues · M

I'm not religious, but he's the best Pope I can remember

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ElwoodBlues · M

Thank you, @degraded! It's a lovely spring morning; the birds are singing, the magnolia & forsythia are blooming, and your jealousy just adds that extra sparkle!!

LeopoldBloom · M

@ElwoodBlues While Francis earned the hatred of conservatives (Michael Savage calls him "Lenin's Pope"), he tended to make radical statements that weren't followed up by meaningful policy changes. For example, he regularly met with a group of trans women, who were given front-row seats at various functions, but he also referred to "gender confusion" and compared it to "nuclear war." And of course he did nothing substantive to advance the rights of trans people, either in the church or outside of it.

LeopoldBloom · M

@degraded As I said, he was the only pope in my lifetime that I didn't consider an enemy.

SomeMichGuy · M

I also felt John Paul I was a Pope more of Francis' mold.

LeopoldBloom · M

@SomeMichGuy He might have been, but with only one month it’s hard to say.

He was before my time, but John XXIII may also have been. That was before the culture war era. Who knows what would have happened if he’d lived longer.

SomeMichGuy · M

@LeopoldBloom John XXIII was very much adored by Catholics when I was growing up, yes.

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tenente · 36-40, M

@TryingtoLava AST!!!!!!!!

tenente · 36-40, M

@TrunkZ it's a fair court 😔

TryingtoLava

@tenente AST!!

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