Question about Jesus
Would Jesus still be revered and worshipped as he is today if Mary hadn’t been a virgin and he wasn't conceived through immaculate conception?
being · 36-40, F
I was thinking the other day of this symbolic metaphor.
How Mary was virgin, in the sense that it wasn't the Man that impregnated her but the Spirit itself. We mistook the metaphor perhaps and instead of seeing the Divinity in our beings, that we are all sons and daughters of the spirit, we took it personified to Jesus.
I prefer to see the story as more towards the collective, which is what Buddhists do. All can be a Buddha, as all can be a Jesus, or Mary. With or without babies. Just by recognizing in themselves that they are pure children of spirit.
That is my story, I really like it and it makes me shift my vision of how I see myself and others in light.
How Mary was virgin, in the sense that it wasn't the Man that impregnated her but the Spirit itself. We mistook the metaphor perhaps and instead of seeing the Divinity in our beings, that we are all sons and daughters of the spirit, we took it personified to Jesus.
I prefer to see the story as more towards the collective, which is what Buddhists do. All can be a Buddha, as all can be a Jesus, or Mary. With or without babies. Just by recognizing in themselves that they are pure children of spirit.
That is my story, I really like it and it makes me shift my vision of how I see myself and others in light.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@being I believe that there were factions in the early church before it became standardize in Nicea, that some people took some of these things like the virgin birth and Jesus's resurection as more of an allogory about the transformational power of the spirit. They lost and the litteralists won the debate; hence the dogma they teach now.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
I think you misunderstand the Catholic Marian teaching of the Immaculate Conception. It has nothing to do with the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, but rather the dogma that Mary was born herself without sin.
To address your question: Jesus Christ is is worshipped as part of the holy Trinity because he was God incarnate, died on a cross for the sins of the world and was resurrected from the dead and lives today. Obviously there are many people who think this is not true, but you asked a question and this is the reason that, I believe, Christians revere and indeed love Jesus.
To address your question: Jesus Christ is is worshipped as part of the holy Trinity because he was God incarnate, died on a cross for the sins of the world and was resurrected from the dead and lives today. Obviously there are many people who think this is not true, but you asked a question and this is the reason that, I believe, Christians revere and indeed love Jesus.
swirlie · 31-35
To be honest with you Jenny, even in the Catholic religion, Jesus isn't revered today because he was conceived through Immaculate Conception, as if that non-act of sex had somehow made Jesus famous.
Jesus is revered for other reasons but he is not directly worshipped, even in the Catholic religion.
We have God Himself, The Holy Spirit and then Jesus Christ in that Order.
There is a hierarchy that must be recognized before assigning elements of reverence or worship to any of them.
Only God is (or should be) worshipped because Jesus falls below God within that hierarchy.
The Holy Spirit is not worshipped either! This is because the Holy Spirit is only the voice for God but is not actually God Himself.
Holy Spirit therefore falls BELOW God the Father, but Holy Spirit sits higher on the list than Jesus in that Order of Hierarchy I speak of.
What we have in the correct Order of Hierarchy are:
1) God
2) The Holy Spirit
3) Jesus
Jesus was a mortal man when he walked this earth and he was the man chosen by God through Immaculate Conception, to teach mankind's understanding of themselves and their Spirit-relationship to God the Creator.
Therefore, only God is Worshipped, but Holy Spirit is not worshipped nor is Jesus worshipped.
Jesus however, is revered because of the journey he represents with mankind.
Whenever you speak to God, you speak to God through that same Order of Hierarchy listed above, except you speak to God in the reverse order listed.
What this means is, you speak directly to Jesus ...who then speaks on your behalf to Holy Spirit (the voice for God) ...who then translates your message Directly to God.
What this means is, you do not ever speak directly TO God yourself nor do you ever speak directly TO The Holy spirit yourself, but you DO speak directly TO Jesus anytime you want to talk to God.
To convey a message to God, you therefore follow this path below:
1) God
⬆
2) Holy Spirit
⬆
3) Jesus
⬆
4) You (with your message to God).
The reason Jesus is revered is because he was the only mortal man who proved to other mortal men than we DO NOT die when we appear to expire from our lifetime.
Jesus appeared to die on the cross, but he came back the next day in visible 'Spirit' form and presented himself to Mary which is what the Resurrection is all about.
The time of Easter therefore, is NOT about the crucifixion of Jesus, Easter is about the Resurrection.
That is why Jesus is revered and not worshipped because Jesus never brought himself back to Mary in Spirit ...his coming back to Mary was an Act of God which applies to every man and woman on earth and always has.
Jesus is revered for other reasons but he is not directly worshipped, even in the Catholic religion.
We have God Himself, The Holy Spirit and then Jesus Christ in that Order.
There is a hierarchy that must be recognized before assigning elements of reverence or worship to any of them.
Only God is (or should be) worshipped because Jesus falls below God within that hierarchy.
The Holy Spirit is not worshipped either! This is because the Holy Spirit is only the voice for God but is not actually God Himself.
Holy Spirit therefore falls BELOW God the Father, but Holy Spirit sits higher on the list than Jesus in that Order of Hierarchy I speak of.
What we have in the correct Order of Hierarchy are:
1) God
2) The Holy Spirit
3) Jesus
Jesus was a mortal man when he walked this earth and he was the man chosen by God through Immaculate Conception, to teach mankind's understanding of themselves and their Spirit-relationship to God the Creator.
Therefore, only God is Worshipped, but Holy Spirit is not worshipped nor is Jesus worshipped.
Jesus however, is revered because of the journey he represents with mankind.
Whenever you speak to God, you speak to God through that same Order of Hierarchy listed above, except you speak to God in the reverse order listed.
What this means is, you speak directly to Jesus ...who then speaks on your behalf to Holy Spirit (the voice for God) ...who then translates your message Directly to God.
What this means is, you do not ever speak directly TO God yourself nor do you ever speak directly TO The Holy spirit yourself, but you DO speak directly TO Jesus anytime you want to talk to God.
To convey a message to God, you therefore follow this path below:
1) God
⬆
2) Holy Spirit
⬆
3) Jesus
⬆
4) You (with your message to God).
The reason Jesus is revered is because he was the only mortal man who proved to other mortal men than we DO NOT die when we appear to expire from our lifetime.
Jesus appeared to die on the cross, but he came back the next day in visible 'Spirit' form and presented himself to Mary which is what the Resurrection is all about.
The time of Easter therefore, is NOT about the crucifixion of Jesus, Easter is about the Resurrection.
That is why Jesus is revered and not worshipped because Jesus never brought himself back to Mary in Spirit ...his coming back to Mary was an Act of God which applies to every man and woman on earth and always has.
swirlie · 31-35
@JimboSaturn
That is correct.
That is correct.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
Interesting question. I'm not sure that those two beliefs are a very big deal outside of Roman Catholicism. Or are they?? 🤔
View 6 more replies »
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@JimboSaturn Yup, special status for certain dead people over all the other dead people is very contrary to scripture, especially if we are praying to them and not to God.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
@sarabee1995 I hear some study that said something like 75% of Italians pray to Mary or a saint rather than God. I don't have the details correct I'm sure but it was alarming whatever they were. I was also a very Protestant style Catholic. Much more paired back style of Christian.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@JimboSaturn Same here. I do like the tradition and "style" of the Catholic Mass, but my faith is very Protestant in style.
Nope as He wouldn't be God the Son and would be just like the rest of us.
@swirlie I'm not Catholic and yeah I guarantee you've sinned just like me.
Jesus was slung up on the cross exactly for our sins.
Jesus was slung up on the cross exactly for our sins.
This message was deleted by its author.
BohoBabe · M
Probably. Christianity spread for reasons that were unrelated to that detail. Plus I'm sure even back then, people were suspecting that Mary cucked Joseph.
FreeSpirit1 · 51-55, F
MartinII · 70-79, M
@FreeSpirit1 Very few people are locked up in loony bins today unless they are murderers.
SomeMichGuy · M
Immaculate conception applies to Mary.
If you have a low Christology, it doesn't matter.
If you have a low Christology, it doesn't matter.
MartinII · 70-79, M
Who knows. Who knows whether what the Bible says is true. It hardly matters.