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Extraordinary Claims Do NOT Require Extraordinary Evidence

Here's why.
First of all, the concept of "extraordinariness" is itself wholly subjective, and susceptible to bias. No one can really agree on it, simply because what may be extraordinary for you may not be for me. It's almost entirely subjective, like the concept of beauty (actually, beauty has a greater claim to being based in reality than the extraordinary, if only because most people will generally agree on what is attractive and what is not; there are at least some standards).
Secondly, what's really required for most claims is just evidence of any kind to establish its credibility or truth. You will not hear in a courtroom, for example, anyone complaining that a prosecution's evidence isn't extraordinary enough, because that would just leave everyone baffled. The evidence may be strong or it may be weak, it may be convincing or not convincing, and it may circumstantial or pertinent and definitive, but it will never be "extraordinary" (whatever that means).
I say all of the above at this point in time, because I've once again been asked by an atheist here on SW to provide some "extraordinary evidence", because apparently belief in the existence, the reality of a transcendent explanation for the existence of our very reality, is just too extraordinary for him to accept.

Update Edit: No one thus far has presented a well-thought-out, sensible case for why they believe the concept of extraordinariness can, and perhaps should, be applied when it comes to evidence (NOT proof).
Predictably, the atheists on this site have chosen to deflect from the issue by waffling on about things that aren't even relevant to the topic.
It's sad, disappointing, but entirely to be expected by now.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M Best Comment
Evidence is evidence, cut and dry. Anything ordinary or extraordinary about it is solely in the eye of the beholder.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
He did both. He exposed the trick, but still it didn’t convince some people.
(None of who could bend spoons)
What more evidence did they need ?
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage Some people are hard to convince. That's all that demonstrates (apart from the fact Geller was just using magician's tricks). I see nothing "extraordinary" in this, and that was my original point, what I was trying (but apparently failing) to convey to people here.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
Again, it depends on the subject. Hitchin had a long standing argument with the church and several of it’s policies.

DocSavage · M
First of all, the concept of "extraordinariness" is itself wholly subjective, and susceptible to bias. No one can really agree on it, simply because what may be extraordinary for you may not be for me.
Nonsense. There are many claims that are extraordinary. Hitchen’s razor refers to the claim that supernatural forces exist in a natural reality.
Why should anyone believe such a claim, when it can’t be demonstrated?
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@newjaninev2 I guess you hadn't noticed that this post isn't about anything to do with "religion".
It just astounds me how so many self-professed atheists don't even bother to examine the actual point(s) that is (or are) being made at any given time. They'll go off on a tangent and waffle on about something that isn't even relevant.
@Bellatrix2024 Supernatural doesn’t mean unnatural. Evidence is detectable, measurable, and repeatedly testable. Even better is adding falsification.
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That's fair. We should just say that any claim requires convincing evidence. Religious people usually don't give any evidence though. In fact, many of claim religion doesn't need any evidence at all because it's only about trust. That is trust in something without even a hint of it being real.
@Bellatrix2024 I can't really think of a better answer than this one...


[media=https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo]
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@rhouse You suspect that science isn't my strong suit. Well... it actually is, but of course you probably believe yourself to be well versed in it.
No one here has thus far presented a case for why "extraordinary evidence" is even a coherent idea (hint: it isn't).
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@Illyria Ah yes, that interview. "Bone cancer in children? How dare you!"
Okay, that's a fine argument for God's non-existence you have there Mr. Fry. Or should I call you Greta? 😂🤣
DocSavage · M
Yes they do.
You did not specify the nature of any particular claim. How can you judge its importance if it doesn’t make a statement. You’re dismissing credibility as irrelevant.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage I've done none of that. Define the concept then. What IS an "extraordinary claim"? Extraordinary by what standard?
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Bellatrix2024 possibility is tempered by probability.
Some claims are improbable, and when such claims rely on a daisy-chain of improbable events or conditions, they are indeed extraordinary.
Ynotisay · M
But the reality? Which non-believers tend to gravitate towards? Not only can't you provide extraordinary evidence, you can't provide ANY evidence that exists outside of belief.
Belief is personal and emotional. Nothing wrong with that. But they're two things that have NOTHING to do with provable, demonstrable evidence. None.
What I'll never get though is why believers try to argue that point with their own "evidence.' The whole religious experience, regardless which of the 10,000 or so global religions one follows, are predicated on two things. Faith and Belief. Full stop. So why don't they just stay in their lanes? Why have a debate that is, truly, impossible to win? Makes no sense to me.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@Ynotisay Faith? Belief? What are you going on about here? How are either of these in any way related to my central claim, that claim being that the term "extraordinary" when it comes to assessing evidence is itself meaningless?
DocSavage · M
[media=https://youtu.be/m1csghjAz7Q]
Randi swallowed a bottle of Homeopathic sleeping pills in one go. Despite warning labels . Had absolutely no effect on him.
Would you still believe homeopathic medication works, or would you now change your views seeing solid proof they do not work ?
Everything we believe in has to meet a standard of proof, else wise we would discard it as false and irrelevant. That includes the supernatural.
If it doesn’t work, you don’t use it. You go with something that does. Continued belief, does not make you open minded.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage No, I don't use homeopathy (I won't call it "medicine" because it's not). A couple of years ago I did something to my back and had to have spinal surgery. I used modern, tried-and-tested methods (like an actual surgeon, MRI and X-ray scans) to get the issue fixed.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
Simply providing examples to prove my point. Not everyone is reasonable. There are lot of people out there who believe all kinds of crazy stuff. It’s not limited to religion and Atheist.
Truth should be held to the highest standards. The context matters.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage Yes. Hey! We agree on something. ☺️
First of all, the concept of "extraordinariness" is itself wholly subjective, and susceptible to bias.

True, but we all kinda agree on what makes something extraordinary. A person who believes in angels would agree that actually seeing an angel is extraordinary, even though it may be less extraordinary to them, than to someone who doesn't believe in angels. Both people would take your word for it if you said you owned a pair of black shoes, but probably would require evidence if you said there's an angel living on your roof.
It's kinda like how everyone has different variations of the same human logic.
Just give objective evidence. If you want truth, test. Truth demands to be tested.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
I say all of the above at this point in time, because I've once again been asked by an atheist here on SW to provide some "extraordinary evidence", [quote]because apparently belief in the existence, the reality of a transcendent explanation for the existence of our very reality, is just too extraordinary for him to accept.

Invoking a non-proof able hypothesis, that is far from any ordinairy answer then the answers we ussually get is "extraordinary". Unless your subjective reality, just allows all kinds of fantasies to become "the norm" when looking for answers to questions. If you in that last paradigm, then you probably need help before you go even further off the rails.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage Okay, so "extraordinary" just means "a lot", or "more than usual".
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
Depending on the context of the claim, yes.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Bellatrix2024
@Kwek00 Yes, measurements, but how do we know that what we're measuring is even real in the first place?

Even if you are a brain in a vat... this experience is still your reality. What you measure, is the objective dimension that reality takes.

You can be over sceptical and start doubting everythg to an absurd degree, but that road ussually allows people to become more fantastical instead of knowledgeable. The art of asking question is part of the arsenal of every snake-oil peddler
rhouse · 56-60, M
BTW - I'm not saying I don't believe because it is extraordinary. I am saying I don't believe because I have eyes and a brain. I know what proof is and if you provide me proof of something extraordinary, I will believe it. The existance of the tallest man in the world is extraordinary and I believe it because I have been provided proof. Accepting things without proof is dumb and anti-science. It makes people believe the sun revolves around the earth.
rhouse · 56-60, M
@Bellatrix2024 This is a perfect example of someone who has no intellectual curiosity. "I disagree with you because you have patently childish arguments" without showing how those arguments are "patently childish". Thank you for the discussion. Hopefully next time it is more productive than name calling (Are you dense?). I would say I am highly educated but my wife may disagree.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@rhouse Now, now. Behave yourself! Or I'll give you a good spanking!
You ARE being childish now. And all because I don't think highly of your inane arguments. I'm not here to argue with people, and I don't care that you don't accept my position on this.
rhouse · 56-60, M
@Bellatrix2024 I haven't been spanked in a long time but I am up for it.
Everyone who claims 65 million years ago…

Yeah.. can I read the witness testimonials please 😏
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout What's this about?
@Bellatrix2024

“ Extraordinary Claims Do NOT Require Extraordinary Evidence”
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout You're not making any sense.
redredred · M
You’ve repeatedly confused “evidence” with ”proof”. There are lots of evidence for Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and gods. There’s not a shred of proof for any of them.
But I was going to say you are extraordinary...
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@SomeMichGuy Yes, that's true, you have a point there ☺️
MasterLee · 56-60, M
pancakeslam · 41-45, M
Well let's leave the court proceedings to the courts themselves. Either you believe it or you don't .

 
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