What's the difference?
Aside from the obvious alleged absence of gods, what is the difference between atheism and theistic religions?
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LadyGrace · 70-79
Well, God said unbelievers won't be in heaven, as they rejected God's plan of salvation, which could have, and was designed to, SAVE mankind from hell, but if that's what they choose and that's what they want, they shall have the desire of their heart. That won't be God's fault.
There are even some theists that will have no part in God's Kingdom. Some believe in "a" god, but not necessarily THE God Almighty, YHWH. Just because one says he/she believes, doesn't mean they understand what that means, and some don't even know God. They know man-made philosophy and think they're going to heaven, but God said no, because they didn't follow His plan for Salvation. Jesus never said, "Follow "this or that" certain religion or man made philosophy, then you'll go to heaven." He said, "Follow Me, and you may rest assured that you'll have heaven for eternity with Me." John 3:16-17. We don't make the rules. God said in His Word that none will have the excuse that they didn't know how to get to heaven, because Jesus did everything within His POWER to let us know about Him and how to have salvation. He did not give mankind permission to change his Plan of Salvation. He said that no other plan will work, but people insist that ways other than God's Plan of Salvation, can work, but they will be sadly mistaken in the long run.
There are even some theists that will have no part in God's Kingdom. Some believe in "a" god, but not necessarily THE God Almighty, YHWH. Just because one says he/she believes, doesn't mean they understand what that means, and some don't even know God. They know man-made philosophy and think they're going to heaven, but God said no, because they didn't follow His plan for Salvation. Jesus never said, "Follow "this or that" certain religion or man made philosophy, then you'll go to heaven." He said, "Follow Me, and you may rest assured that you'll have heaven for eternity with Me." John 3:16-17. We don't make the rules. God said in His Word that none will have the excuse that they didn't know how to get to heaven, because Jesus did everything within His POWER to let us know about Him and how to have salvation. He did not give mankind permission to change his Plan of Salvation. He said that no other plan will work, but people insist that ways other than God's Plan of Salvation, can work, but they will be sadly mistaken in the long run.
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LadyGrace · 70-79
@AkioTsukino
Statements 1 and 2 contradict each other.
1. The Bible teaches the soul isn't immortal. It dies and can be destroyed. Ezekiel 18:4/Matthew 10:28.
2. Plato, and others in ancient Greek philosophy, taught the soul was immortal. Phaedo, 80, E: 81, A.
2. Plato, and others in ancient Greek philosophy, taught the soul was immortal. Phaedo, 80, E: 81, A.
Statements 1 and 2 contradict each other.
AkioTsukino · M
@LadyGrace Ezekiel 18:4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Matthew 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
AkioTsukino · M
@LadyGrace Correct. The Bible says the soul dies or can be destroyed, Phaedo says it is immortal. Which is true?
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage No, I mean what is all the fuss about gods in general? Why would you and millions of others say get rid of the gods and me and millions of others say keep them?
You say get rid of them, but have you? Are you actively pursuing the getting rid of them? Educating people on what they are, why we need to get rid of them, etc?
You say get rid of them, but have you? Are you actively pursuing the getting rid of them? Educating people on what they are, why we need to get rid of them, etc?
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
Ever run into a young earth creationist, or a Christian nationalist ?
Senators demanding the Ten Commandment be posted in every public school room.
The problem is too many people think they speak for god. And that god was out dated long ago.
Ever run into a young earth creationist, or a Christian nationalist ?
Senators demanding the Ten Commandment be posted in every public school room.
The problem is too many people think they speak for god. And that god was out dated long ago.
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage
[shudder] Please. Don't do that.
Puppets. I don't think they should be there, but who cares? Ideologues. The science of ideas. The "Ten Commandments" or Pharmacy advertisements. Who cares?
Apparently not.
Ever run into a young earth creationist, or a Christian nationalist ?
[shudder] Please. Don't do that.
Senators demanding the Ten Commandment be posted in every public school room.
Puppets. I don't think they should be there, but who cares? Ideologues. The science of ideas. The "Ten Commandments" or Pharmacy advertisements. Who cares?
The problem is too many people think they speak for god. And that god was out dated long ago.
Apparently not.
BlueSkyKing · M
"A wise man has told us that ‘men are once for all so made that they prefer a rational world to believe in and live in.’”
— Jane Addams, Twenty Years at Hull House (1912)
“If the concept of God has any validity or use, it can only be to make us larger, freer, and more loving. If God cannot do this, then it is time we got rid of him.”
— James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time (1963)
Bill Blass: I have a firm belief in such things as, you know, the water, the Earth, the trees and sky. And I’m wondering, it is increasingly difficult to find those elements in nature, because it’s nature I believe in rather than some spiritual thing.
SF Weekly: You’re not a religious man?
BB: No. And I do suppose that science has taken, to a large extent and for a number of people, has taken the place of religion.
SFW: What do you mean by that?
BB: That one can have more belief in scientific cures or scientific miracles than you do in God miracles. It’s inevitable that we will eventually diffuse into nothingness.
— Interview, SF Weekly (Sept. 1, 1999).
"We are lucky enough to be living in a country that not only guarantees the freedom to practice religion as we see fit, but also freedom FROM religious zealots who would persecute and prosecute and even physically harm those of us who do not believe as they do. … Predicating patriotism on a citizen’s belief in God is as anti-American as judging him on the color of his skin. It is wrong. It is useless. It is unconstitutional.”
— Harvey Fierstein, “In the Life” broadcast by Generation Q (November 2004)
"Science is the record of dead religions.”
— Oscar Wilde, Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young (1894).
“It took me years, but letting go of religion has been the most profound wake up of my life. I feel I now look at the world not as a child, but as an adult. I see what's bad and it's really bad. But I also see what is beautiful, what is wonderful. And I feel so deeply appreciative that I am alive. How dare the religious use the term 'born again.' That truly describes freethinkers who've thrown off the shackles of religion so much better!”
—Quote submitted by Julia Sweeney
— Jane Addams, Twenty Years at Hull House (1912)
“If the concept of God has any validity or use, it can only be to make us larger, freer, and more loving. If God cannot do this, then it is time we got rid of him.”
— James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time (1963)
Bill Blass: I have a firm belief in such things as, you know, the water, the Earth, the trees and sky. And I’m wondering, it is increasingly difficult to find those elements in nature, because it’s nature I believe in rather than some spiritual thing.
SF Weekly: You’re not a religious man?
BB: No. And I do suppose that science has taken, to a large extent and for a number of people, has taken the place of religion.
SFW: What do you mean by that?
BB: That one can have more belief in scientific cures or scientific miracles than you do in God miracles. It’s inevitable that we will eventually diffuse into nothingness.
— Interview, SF Weekly (Sept. 1, 1999).
"We are lucky enough to be living in a country that not only guarantees the freedom to practice religion as we see fit, but also freedom FROM religious zealots who would persecute and prosecute and even physically harm those of us who do not believe as they do. … Predicating patriotism on a citizen’s belief in God is as anti-American as judging him on the color of his skin. It is wrong. It is useless. It is unconstitutional.”
— Harvey Fierstein, “In the Life” broadcast by Generation Q (November 2004)
"Science is the record of dead religions.”
— Oscar Wilde, Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young (1894).
“It took me years, but letting go of religion has been the most profound wake up of my life. I feel I now look at the world not as a child, but as an adult. I see what's bad and it's really bad. But I also see what is beautiful, what is wonderful. And I feel so deeply appreciative that I am alive. How dare the religious use the term 'born again.' That truly describes freethinkers who've thrown off the shackles of religion so much better!”
—Quote submitted by Julia Sweeney
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
AkioTsukino · M
@hippyjoe1955 Your vague and insubstantial claims are biased. You'll have to do more than preach to the choir if you want to impress me. You should know that. But you don't care. Because you are only biased and preaching to the choir. You see?
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 51-55, M
@AkioTsukino Joe's confusion is understandable. Nearly all arguments atheists make can be turned back upon themselves. This was just one rare exception
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@AkioTsukino Observable reality indicates a Designer not an accident. You want to believe there was once a cosmic accident that resulted in all we see and know. I know there was a beyond cosmic Designer based purely on the utra complex form and function of even the most basic life forms. As the atheist Fred Hoyle noted it is like someone tampered with the universal constants to get everything just right in order to have a place such is earth sustain life. Bio chemists and biologists all over the world are now doubting as Darwin did the entire theory that life could ever have formed without a designer. Even the sudden and unexpected leaps in the fossil records where suddenly for no reason life forms became more abundant and much more complex. Completely not what is expected should life be the result of endless mutation falling very fortuitously ever upward in complexity of form and function. Here is a riddle posed by John Lennox. You use a computer. If you knew or even thought that it was the result of a bunch of random parts that fell into form and function by accident would you trust it to do calculations? Probably not yet you trust your brain to be fully functional despite it being just a jumble of parts jammed together by accident.
WhatLifeIsFor · 41-45, M
Well atheists demand proof, theistic people dont demand proof
AkioTsukino · M
@WhatLifeIsFor
Wow! There's something I don't see very often. Honest, rational facts expressed by an unbeliever. Not many unbelievers I've come across would make such a statement.
Yeh I agree, every thing needs strong evidence. but that is subjective, like theory of evolution is lacking strong evidence but there are scientists who believe in it and other group of scientists refuse it. So it is a debatable topic.
Wow! There's something I don't see very often. Honest, rational facts expressed by an unbeliever. Not many unbelievers I've come across would make such a statement.
WhatLifeIsFor · 41-45, M
@AkioTsukino Well it is a debatable topic. Science still has long journey to go. Yes proof and scientific evidences are subjective, for some information exist in DNA is sufficient evidence for existence of God , for some it is not..
LadyGrace · 70-79
@WhatLifeIsFor
Jesus already proved himself. I don't know what more he could have done. After all, He gave his life for us so that we could have eternal life in heaven. He doesn't have to prove anything. He already did. It's just that some people won't accept it, that's the only difference.
Yeh I agree, every thing needs strong evidence
Jesus already proved himself. I don't know what more he could have done. After all, He gave his life for us so that we could have eternal life in heaven. He doesn't have to prove anything. He already did. It's just that some people won't accept it, that's the only difference.
AkioTsukino · M
@revenant I don't see much evidence for that. Can you give examples in general? What exactly do you mean and how do you define true human values. I don't see any human, no matter how destructive their behavior, giving any importance to anything but their own values. Everyone's values are human.
AkioTsukino · M
@WhatLifeIsFor True, but very nearly everything is debatable. To me evidence, science, theology or anything else for consideration are only meant as steps in the long journey. When you start looking for absolute truth in any of these things you become delusional. Or at least wrong.
WhatLifeIsFor · 41-45, M
@AkioTsukino Well, I agree, for long journey small steps are need to be taken, that is what science is doing. As for as theology is concern, we can see there exist different religions and different concept of God or gods and every follower claims that his/her religion is the true one. This thing create a lot of questions in the mind of new generation. and definitely every one has his/her own journey in world of theology.
LadyGrace · 70-79
@WhatLifeIsFor
No they don't, because we don't believe that anyone's religion or even religion itself is right, and we don't argue with or question God, that He's right. We already know He is no liar, he cannot err, so why wouldn't we believe Him? Some just won't accept the evidence, so no wonder they are confused, but believers have never said we know the exact right way and there's nobody right but us. We keep getting misquoted on that. We have always promoted and proclaimed that what Jesus said and God said in His Word, is right. We have always said that God is right and we should listen to Him.
Secondly, we have never stated that our "religion" is right because we don't believe in religion and nobody will understand that. It is not religion or any religion of this world, that gets one to heaven. God himself said so. Is He a liar? Do we know better than God and we're smarter than God? God said the religions of this world have absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It is man's thinking that is flawed, wanting to follow everyone but God. They may as well call him a liar.
every follower claims that his/her religion is the true one.
No they don't, because we don't believe that anyone's religion or even religion itself is right, and we don't argue with or question God, that He's right. We already know He is no liar, he cannot err, so why wouldn't we believe Him? Some just won't accept the evidence, so no wonder they are confused, but believers have never said we know the exact right way and there's nobody right but us. We keep getting misquoted on that. We have always promoted and proclaimed that what Jesus said and God said in His Word, is right. We have always said that God is right and we should listen to Him.
Secondly, we have never stated that our "religion" is right because we don't believe in religion and nobody will understand that. It is not religion or any religion of this world, that gets one to heaven. God himself said so. Is He a liar? Do we know better than God and we're smarter than God? God said the religions of this world have absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It is man's thinking that is flawed, wanting to follow everyone but God. They may as well call him a liar.
checkoutanytime · M
A disregard for natural law, is the biggest difference in my observations.
AkioTsukino · M
@DocSavage What a strange, Doc. I can't piece together what exactly this means.
Let's break it down.
Okay. What about it?
It's also a common expression, it has been in several languages for thousands of years. Still is. Like 4 corners of the earth or the foundation of democracy. Desperate skeptics have a difficult time with figurative speech, parable, illustration, hyperbolic intensifiers. Language. That's why it's important to define things when trying to communicate with them.
Let's break it down.
The sunrise
Okay. What about it?
Natural law : the sunrise is an illusion
It's also a common expression, it has been in several languages for thousands of years. Still is. Like 4 corners of the earth or the foundation of democracy. Desperate skeptics have a difficult time with figurative speech, parable, illustration, hyperbolic intensifiers. Language. That's why it's important to define things when trying to communicate with them.
AkioTsukino · M
@checkoutanytime That's pretty much paraphrasing the Bible.
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
You’re asking people what’s the difference between Atheism and religion as if it were a complex question, it isn’t.
Belief in god comes with a lot of excess baggage. Religious dogma, traditions, rituals depending on the faith and how much you believe.
Atheist , don’t believe in a god, so we don’t need to obey his rules or take him into account for what we say or do. We can live the same basic lifestyle, we’re not going to spend all our time sinning. But at the end of the day, we’re not going to worry about being judged by anyone for anything. That’s pretty much it. I don’t know what else you expected in terms of worldviews .
You’re asking people what’s the difference between Atheism and religion as if it were a complex question, it isn’t.
Belief in god comes with a lot of excess baggage. Religious dogma, traditions, rituals depending on the faith and how much you believe.
Atheist , don’t believe in a god, so we don’t need to obey his rules or take him into account for what we say or do. We can live the same basic lifestyle, we’re not going to spend all our time sinning. But at the end of the day, we’re not going to worry about being judged by anyone for anything. That’s pretty much it. I don’t know what else you expected in terms of worldviews .
TexChik · F
Those who have to ask will never know. Those who know need only ask.
AkioTsukino · M
@TexChik How do you know whether or not I will if you yourself do not?
TexChik · F
@AkioTsukino Again, my original statement covers that.
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helenS · 36-40, F
You question is rather vague. There are at least three different types of atheism which are almost unrelated.
AkioTsukino · M
@helenS
Enlighten me to these types of atheism and if you would, explain how they may or may not be different between theistic religions. Of which, I remind you, also have unrelated variations.
You question is rather vague. There are at least three different types of atheism which are almost unrelated.
Enlighten me to these types of atheism and if you would, explain how they may or may not be different between theistic religions. Of which, I remind you, also have unrelated variations.
eMortal · M
Atheism is not a religion. It’s not even political party or movement. It’s a philosophy.
AkioTsukino · M
@eMortal Most modern day theistic religion is very political but so are most of the atheists I've come across. I think religion is more philosophy than atheism. Atheism has no cohesive philosophy that I can see. Just a sort of collective social/cultural frustration with theism. I wouldn't say that defines atheism in any way though, and only exists in a small percentage of atheists.
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AkioTsukino · M
@jshm2
Sounds too ideological. Religiosity. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. How is it like being dishonest and honest?
That's like asking for the difference between being dishonest and honest.
Sounds too ideological. Religiosity. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. How is it like being dishonest and honest?
Gloomy · F
"alleged" 🤦♀️
Atheists don't follow a set doctrine and demand proof.
Atheists don't follow a set doctrine and demand proof.
AkioTsukino · M
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the first is impossible without the second
AkioTsukino · M
@fakable True, but would that constitute difference? Not necessarily, but I guess it would. Okay. Good answer. The difference being that though the first is impossible without the second, the second isn't impossible without the first.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
Atheism isn’t a religion.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
@AkioTsukino And yet using words now….curious.
AkioTsukino · M
@Fukfacewillie Not using them very well. Not very curious.
Fukfacewillie · 56-60, M
@AkioTsukino We will have to agree to disagree, I’m afraid.
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AkioTsukino · M
@Emosaur
Aside from the obvious alleged absence of gods, what is the difference between atheism and theistic religions?
"Off" isn't a TV channel.
Aside from the obvious alleged absence of gods, what is the difference between atheism and theistic religions?
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Renaci · 36-40
One pisses you off to no end. The other believes in magic.
AkioTsukino · M
@Renaci Atheism doesn't piss me off at all. I was atheist half of my life. I think it is a rational choice, and I think believers such as myself should be fine with it. Why wouldn't they? The only reason not to be as far as I can tell is ideology and ignorance.
I don't have a problem with atheists or atheism, I have a problem with idiots with big mouths, fake ideologies, and smug self righteousness. Groupthink, religion, stupidity. Trouble is, that's pretty much all of us. Human nature. Sin.
I don't have a problem with atheists or atheism, I have a problem with idiots with big mouths, fake ideologies, and smug self righteousness. Groupthink, religion, stupidity. Trouble is, that's pretty much all of us. Human nature. Sin.
DocSavage · M
@AkioTsukino
when you mention sin, how do you see it ? Most people nowadays consider anything that causes unnecessary harm or grief as immorality
But we have laws to safeguard us from much of that. Sin isn’t so clear cut anymore. What people do in the privacy of their own homes, is their choice. Sin is subject to informed consent, not necessarily to out dated rules in a old book.
when you mention sin, how do you see it ? Most people nowadays consider anything that causes unnecessary harm or grief as immorality
But we have laws to safeguard us from much of that. Sin isn’t so clear cut anymore. What people do in the privacy of their own homes, is their choice. Sin is subject to informed consent, not necessarily to out dated rules in a old book.