Asking
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Is cancel culture real or is it just a right-wing myth?

Personally, I think it does exist but it's niche and massively blown up by the right. Conservative YouTubers seem much more obsessed with university social science departments than anyone else on the planet. If you complain about being 'cancelled' it's the fastest way to get a book deal but then if you criticise the government of Israel you get called an anti-semite.

BTW, most of the 'free-speech absolutists' on this site will never read this post because they have blocked me. Oh well.
SW-User Best Comment
I believe it’s real, but frequently misapplied to situations that are better called something else. Is it “cancel culture”, for example, to fire someone for any reason other than inability to do their job? Does a company have a right to protect its reputation and enforce its own rules (and fire people if they violate them, even if what they’ve done is not illegal)? Is it "cancel culture" to exercise economic freedom and boycott a business whose practices you don't support? A lot of what gets called “cancel culture” is just the equivalent of an audience booing someone on stage. It isn’t “cancel culture” to be poorly received or criticized. It’s just as “canceling” to say we can’t react negatively to someone or their content.

It’s not new for people to be shunned or blacklisted, but I think what “cancel culture” refers to is the relatively recent social media-inspired phenomenon of a public person doing or saying something stupid or “problematic” and then being removed from their job or having their reputation ruined (and often very quickly without much introspection). I’ve always been someone who can separate art from the artist. I’m not going to stop listening to Wagner because he was an anti-Semite or stop watching Woody Allen films because of the allegations against him. I think what alarms people about cancel culture is that often it involves allegations only (no proof of any wrongdoing), it involves the dredging up of old content that the person has since disavowed and thus perpetuates the idea that people cannot escape their past or redeem themselves, and the swiftness and ruthlessness with which it happens.

I also believe that referring to it as a "culture" is appropriate given the recent instances of "self-cancellation" where entities (like the Dr. Seuss estate) censor themselves or their own work in anticipation of a "cancelling mob" that may never have actually been gunning for them--nonetheless the culture is such that this is even a concern. But as others have pointed out, the idea that this exists only on the left is patently false; right-wing "cancellation" is attested from the past (particularly on the part of religious conservatives going after elements of culture they view to be debased and sacrilege) and occurs now.

"Cancel culture" is intellectual laziness. It's removing something before you can engage with it rather than engaging with it honestly and fairly.
SW-User
@Burnley123 I'll admit I don't know what her views are in full (only heard them summarized recently in a podcast episode) but that's a good question. There are certain areas of discussion that have "closed" and I have no problem with that and immediately dismissing someone who proclaims 19th-century views of racial superiority (or less contentiously, that the sun revolves around the earth), but some of what Rowling and Adichie bring up, e.g. the different lived experiences between trans women and biological women, is legitimate. The points just have to be dealt with individually.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SW-User Yes. My own view is that to define biological women's 'experiences' in contrast to trans people is (sigh, hate this term) problematic. It comes from the anti-trans rad fem views of Germaine Greer and others that the existence of trans people is undermining for women. I.e. if a man can transition to a woman more easily than the other way around, is that undermining the sanctity of womanhood? If anyone can be a woman but it's much harder to be a man, then is that not medical operations enforcing inequality?

Why I can't buy into this is that trans people are probably the most marginalized group on the planet. Suicide rates are high and many suffer massive discrimination. Gender dysphoria is not an intentional attempt to undermine women, nor does it really impact on the lives of women.

Greer's views I mostly otherwise agree with and Rowling has said that she is against trans discrimination. Though it's maybe a bit like me saying I am against racism but we need to do more to listen to the experiences of white men.

It is a fine line between a view which I disagree with and a discriminatory view.
@SW-User I was not big on Bill Cosby's enteraiment but I was so politically active and outspoken against the death penalty which I remain against today that i knew about his kid and that he had joined muder victims familly members against the death penalty and on THAT basis Always admired the man- and then the stories came out.

at a time when I was growing more and more feminist in my ideals.

BlueVeins · 22-25
Cancel culture is real and not entirely good, but it's always existed and it's not exclusively left-wing as they'd like to claim. I seriously doubt, for example, that you'd have kept your day job if you published a Satanic book in the year 1900, and homosexual literature faced challenges from the US Post Office itself in the '50s.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@BlueVeins [quote]not exclusively left-wing as they'd like to claim.[/quote]

Totally

I am pretty involved in left politics but I have never knowingly met anyone who has engaged in cancelling of anyone.

The left (as opposed to liberals) are pre-cancelled anyway. We have much much less access to media platforms than anyone. I think so much of the debate around this has a disingenuous emphasis and relies on heavy cherry-picking.

A group of students get a professor fired for saying something borderline racist and it's presented as an Orwellian takeover. YouTubers with a million subscribers talk for months about how they are not allowed to say anything.
BlueVeins · 22-25
@Burnley123 The YouTubers, in fairness, kind of have a point. Since YouTube has very, very little personnel resources, they police almost all content creation using bots, which demonetize almost all non-corporate polical content as well as anything (positive OR negative) concerning LGBT+ stuff. The right still uses this dishonestly in pretending that it's only them.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@BlueVeins Yes, I know that plenty of left and right Youtubers have been demonitised for reasons you say. Youtube also does provide platforms for far-right ideas.
I guess it exists, as there are clearly people out there who don't like what other people say, when and where and to whom they say it.

How prevalent, defined, organized, threatening,and malicious this particular aspect of the conspiracy against "Conservatives" it is seems like a different story.

Maybe we should ask Salman Rushdie?
@MistyCee I don't consider faith a virtue and I lack a capacity for it.

I have no faith in anything or anyone . Everything and everyone must prove itself or themselves.

really is weird. Although I agree with you about that particular case.
@BetweenKittensandRiots I don't value faith over reason much myself, but I don't find it completely valueless and it can be useful sometimes.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@Burnley123 A fatwa is not cancel culture.
Northwest · M
They all block me as well. A few days ago, Trump was calling for cancelling Coca Cola, while sporting a can of diet coke on his desk.

I think we should be able to use our economic power to support our political beliefs. Why would I want to buy My Pillow products? Fuck him and the horse he rode on.

The same goes for every business that supports Jim Crow 2.0, and racists/fascists. If it's called the Cancel Culture, so be it.
REMsleep · 41-45, F
@Northwest I agree vote with your dollars 100%.
I think that a little informed highly emotional half cocked hive mentality is the bad part.
Northwest · M
@REMsleep [quote]I think that a little informed highly emotional half cocked hive mentality is the bad part.
[/quote]

Yes, and this is why it's important to dig deeper than the one liners.

I don't know how I feel about the move for businesses to boycott Georgia. I would instead target specific businesses in Georgia that support Jim Crow 2.0. A blanket boycott may end up hurting the very people the white racist establishment is trying to suppress.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
American conservatives tried to cancel an election!!
@Harriet03 so true.
@Harriet03 [b]Thank you ![/b] 😳
*cancels coke while drinking coke*
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@canusernamebemyusername That was beautiful.
@canusernamebemyusername yeah they're too addicted to really ever cancel coke. This nation is too caffine addicted to ever give it up.
It does, but most of the time it is very much just very aggressive virtue signalling. Some companies have even successfully manipulated the phenomenon for profit. Nike made a fortune over right wingers burning their sneakers/trainers.

As much as the right likes to complain about it much of the tactics and even the motivations behind it can be traced back to evangelical purity culture of the 90s in particular as many former evangelicals have pointed out and started with trying to ban gangster rap and South Park.
AuRevoir · 36-40, M
It exists even leftist types get cancelled.. but it’s not really a thing that can be controlled.. piss off enough people and even if a platform doesn’t remove you often people feel so ashamed over their exposure they remove themselves...

In fact I’d say that’s the more likely outcome for a lot of people.. Where it gets weirder to me is when society thinks it has to cancel things like dr.suess books.. But keeps the porn industry highly active.. If anything should be cancelled immediately it should be that.. But the government’s the world over make too much money off it, so it’ll never happen..

But there’s plenty of examples, especially when things like twitch, YouTube or other entertainment media’s are concerned, where someone is left winged. Can be the complete opposite of a more conservative based mindset, and becomes cancelled because of their behaviors, actions, and words..
AuRevoir · 36-40, M
@QuixoticSoul That’s not how cancelling works.. They’re taking the initiative to cancel it themselves, because they believe a backlash from cancel culture could occur. Therefore it’s still cancel culture implied. It’s just a fear based preemptive strike of cancel culture. And how it’s already affected the throes of society, to cause them to make such decisions.

If that were your argument all they would have to do is mark the books as explicative or sensitive and adult based only, but instead they cancelled the books and removed any further printing or distributing of them.

And there’s plenty of racist material in pornography, that being the main issue with the books was not the form in which the entertainment came in but the supposed subconsciously hinted messages within the books.

Which again if that’s the problem. 90% of the worlds porn should come under questioning first.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@AuRevoir So what you meant was that the organization was afraid of getting cancelled, rather than got cancelled. Maybe. But considering that this conversation has been going on since the 80s, maybe things just got there organically.

There is no market for adult-rated dr suess books, so that would have been pretty pointless. As for porn - it’s porn, nobody expects it to be wholesome or to teach values to our children.
AuRevoir · 36-40, M
@QuixoticSoul maybe but its still strange to see it even occur. Just like it was strange when Disney promised new Star Wars movies but hired someone who is quoted for absolutely hating Star Wars to make them, amongst other things. And essentially pre-cancels a beloved series, by giving people the opposite of what they want.

If girls can sell their E-girl bath water they fart in.. And mama June and honey booboo took became household names in society. It’ll be too hard to convince me that there’s not a market for everything anymore. As long as the person knows how to sell it.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott cancelled his appearance at a MLB game to throw out the first pitch to protest the move of the All Star Game from Georgia.

This is one of the latest examples of the hypocrisy of Republicans claiming cancel culture is everyone else.

It’s a thing, but it’s not new. The US Boycotted the Moscow Olympics during the Cold War.

Had it reached hysterical levels? Maybe, the the people who complain most about it seem to be equally guilty.
This message was deleted by its author.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
@CopperCicada virtue signaling is the root cause (IMHO)

People don’t want to actually do anything. They just want to appear that they understand and are willing to contribute to a cause.

It’s like people who willing eat hamburgers but are against hunting.
This message was deleted by its author.
adorbz · 26-30, F
not in any way that actually makes a difference to anything and every political persuasion has the few idiots that do do this stuff
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
It seems to mean different things depending on the target.

@QuixoticSoul God damn man some people get super offended whenever you don't you know pretend to worship the flag. it's silly.
Elessar · 26-30, M
Mostly used as a slogan by the right, and for now I guess only/mostly in the U.S, to define anything that goes from a boycotting action to the hallucinations that are product of their paranoia.

I'm curious to see how the alrighters over here will translate the expression. "Cultura della cancellazione"? Doesn't make much sense 🤔
just like pretty much every other bogeyman on the right ,yes.

I don't even what to hear from them anymore myself because it's like you're going to piss and moan about cancel culture like the GOP didn't try to cancel video games didn't try to cancel dungeons and dragons and the dixie chicks and on and on and on.

The thing about the people on the right is they're scared shitless of everything.

and it's just so sad, Like people are but republicans are happy and democrats are miserable and I'm like.

But republicans cannot do anything that's actually fun or enjoyable because the right is terrified of people enjoying themselves.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@BetweenKittensandRiots The word 'woke' has recently entered the British media lexicon. It is used almost exclusively as an attack line.

A deliberately ill-defined umbrella term that means anything socially liberal. Its largely replaced the term 'politically correct' and it is used by people who have no idea of the origin of the word. Unfortunately, there are big efforts over here to import the American culture war and it does have a target market.
@Burnley123 the thing is that it's so much worse.

the cultural bolshevism conspiracy theory of nazi germany is basically damn nearly indistguinsable from the "cultural marxism" conspiracy theory today.

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrpSpwxgWw&t=903s]

same exact fucking thing. I can't tell it apart. Nazis.

All over youtube.

these morons just basically lifted Hitlers Race theory and repackaged it for the modern age.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
REMsleep · 41-45, F
Its real. Not just on the right. The right speaks about it only in terms of conservative vs liberal but even withn various niche communities people are trying to cancel this person or that.
I'd say that cancel culture is real but its just people online whinning and sometimes sponsors fire people so as not to loose customers or brand value.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@REMsleep Yeah I can agree with that. Corporations (Post-modern neo Marxists that they are.., LOLZ) don't want any controversy and fire people too easily.

What is not real is the framing and the emphasis the right put on this.
REMsleep · 41-45, F
@Burnley123 Well the right get off on fear mongering. The left does it too but I think that the right takes the cake on stirring folks up over nothing or badly framing arguments for personal gain.
Miseducating their audience.
But Dems are no boyscouts either.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@REMsleep I'm British, not America but I think the same dynamics apply in each of our countries. I think the left does some nasty stuff on social media, true. Then the right builds a whole industry to complain about how unfair that it.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
Outrage and boycots, peer pressure ... that's just part of societies. It's not persé a culture. Certain segments of the poppulation use it as a form of continuous activism. However, if these segments don't find popular support then nothing happens with it. Personal attacks however can be pretty damadging, no matter if someone gets canceled or not. Turning it into a general thing like "cancel culture", I don't see it. And blaming it on one side of the political spectrums, ist dumb and can only be explained as a certain segment of the poppulation using it as a tool to sway public opinion. It works a lot with those people that have a serious bad media diet.
Graylight · 51-55, F
A cancel culture exists, but I think the phrase and its partner, 'woke,' are vague terms used to describe more than they actually define.

I believe it's entirely legitimate to want to minimize what's seen as a damaging or negative influence. But to disclude something simply because it doesn't align with what you like without any real reason or foundation, thenwe get into the neighborhood of cancel culture.

This pettiness exists on all sides. Republicans should cringe when they recall Freedom fries. They should also look at their efforts to expel masks from this country before pointing the finger at anyone else. Likewise, the Democrats- not without reason - are known to be quick to react to social causes and they can sometimes trip over their own feet showing their passion in, let's say, more trivial ways.

The insidiousness of cancel culture at the moment in the States is that it's being used by the right to play the victim in the struggle to rid this country of its ugliness.
First of all....hiiiiiiii!!!!!!


I think there are two levels in this. There is this whole social media level where someone spouts hate towards a group of people and then is attacked, vilified, bullied for their view or opinion. Some may lose jobs, reputations and even their social media accounts.
It is real, it is not always a bad thing, but it does get horribly ugly when people hide behind their anonymity to return that hate...for example rape threats to jkr

On another level I have seen it in my daughter's peer group. A boy, a nice boy, was removed from all WhatsApp groups and social media friends....for an inappropriate joke about sexuality. And whilst it is right that they tell the boy it is unacceptable I really feel for a kid who is just 14 to be "cancelled" like that.
@Burnley123 I'm hoping it is a short term thing.

I love that the kids are more aware, they also need to learn to be more tolerant of those that aren't quite there yet.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 all I can do is to continue to have these conversations with my daughter. She's a sensible kid.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
IWasCallingYaLarry · 26-30, M
I mean people on the far left claim it doesn't exist until it personally affects them. Then they start screaming about it, too and then everyone just goes "Oh well. You were defending this behavior. It's karma."
DunningKruger · 61-69, M
The right is the greatest practitioner of "cancel culture."
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Agreed. Real but overblown and exaggerated. All of it.
In this country, mostly conservatives participated in their own type of “cancel culture” by banning and even [b]burning[/b] books, records or art by all kinds of people, often for religious reasons.
Church members in New Mexico burned Harry Potter books, which they considered “evil” and “satanic”
maturedragon · 26-30, M
I think cancel culture is real
SomeAreBoojums · 51-55, M
That sounds like a good idea
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SevIsPamprinYouAlways Perfectly apt GIF work.
Human1000 · M
Yes, it's quite real. I know a few people who stepped out of line, usually younger, and got cancelled.

I've kept my views on the Asian massage parlor killings largely to myself out of fear of being cancelled. In addition to being cancelled is the fear of being cancelled which "chills speech." It's especially an issue with Academic research.
This message was deleted by its author.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@CopperCicada Thank you for the detailed post. Mostly I agree.

Firstly on the market choice thing. You are entirely right that 'cancel-culture' is consistent with classical liberalism when it's the exercise of consumer choice. It has problems though in that (actual leftist speaking here) some have more capital than others. Whether it's social capital or straight money, it's bound to be an unequal playing field. Such is the way with [i]liberal[/i] democacy.

[quote]but a neo-fascist showing up and giving a talk isn't a bad thing if you want to a counterpoint to your dialog about liberty and democracy.[/quote]

I have always been in too minds on this one. I'm not a fan of boycotting for 'offensive' views per se but if someone is acting in bad faith it can give their arguments unfair legitimacy. Is their race realism a serious view that deserves to be debated? The nationalist right themselves would (and do) take away the speech rights from others which they gamed to get it power.

Though who am I to say, right? Am I placing an arbitrary distinction on people I disagree with? I support the free speech of Marxists so is it a logical contradiction if I deny that to the far-right?

I genuinely don't have all the answers. I do think though that anyone claiming free speech is a simple issue to resolve has not thought about it enough and also that there is no such thing as a real 'free speech absolutist'.

 
Post Comment