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For men who are pro life: what would you say to being told that you don't have a right over your own body? Because that's what you're telling women.

At the end of the day the issue is SO simple:

Whether or not you consider a fetus a person, it has o right to a woman's body.
If it's not a sentient being, much less a person then of course no argument will be made.
But even if you DO consider it a person then it has only the rights of any other person and NO person has a right to make use of another person's body against their will.
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BelovedTed · 51-55, M
That’ll convince them.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
[@903658,BelovedTed]
Keepitsimple · 51-55, F
I agree with this to a degree but women are the only ones capable of carrying a baby. The man also has to live with the fact that their child’s fate rests in the woman’s hands.
swirlie · 31-35, F
[@11509,Keepitsimple]
That’s why people need to think about that before sleeping with somebody.
[c=#008099]
Sleeping with somebody has nothing to do with unwanted pregnancies occurring.

I believe what you're eluding to is contraception, not merely occupying the same bed-space as someone from the opposite sex.[/c]
Keepitsimple · 51-55, F
[@800884,Viper] Its a bigger commitment than being married.
Viper · 31-35, M
[@11509,Keepitsimple] yup, marriage might only last a few weeks and no outside parties might not be effected.

Bringing a kid to the world (or even considering it), is whole other level!
Budwick · 70-79, M
[quote]what would you say to being told that you don't have a right over your own body? [/quote]

How does that protect people I intend to murder?
[@841775,Budwick] So women should be forced to give birth, but other people should not be forced to donate kidneys.

Expecting consistency from you is a mistake.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] [quote]So women should be forced to give birth, but other people should not be forced to donate kidneys.[/quote]

Is this yet another extension of your metaphor?

Are promoting sterilization of women now?
And prohibition of dialysis?

Or, are you still trying to sell me on murdering children?
[@841775,Budwick] I'm never going to "sell" you on anything that is opposed to your morally depraved and anti-human worldview.

I'm promoting choice.

If women want to give birth, they should be allowed to.

If they want an abortion, they should be allowed to have one.

If they want to be sterilized, they should be allowed to do that.

If someone needs dialysis, they should have it.

If someone wants to donate their organs, they should be able to.

If someone doesn't want to donate their organs, they shouldn't have to.

The government should not be involved in personal decisions, other than to ensure that the people carrying them out are properly trained and licensed.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
You make conception sound like divine intervention
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] Ah yes...the infrastructure. I've heard that for decades. I'll take Wi-Fi, the Internet, computers, AI, integrated circuits, materials science and the many other things that our military has given us.
[@6578,HoraceGreenley] The military hasn't "given" us those things. They were developed by private industry with government money, and the military took advantage.

If technology requires a massively bloated military, how do you explain the fact that Japan, South Korea, Finland, etc. are ahead of us technologically, without insanely large militaries? One thing Trump was right about, the U.S. taxpayer is covering the military needs of many other countries. Unfortunately, he didn't do shit about that. It's a shame since as a Republican he could have gotten away with reducing our overseas military presence.
HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] Those countries aren't "ahead" of us in terms of technology. They are using technology invented in the US. All of it was invented here. The US military, yes their money, is the world's best technology transfer mechanism for applied science.

You should thank them for protecting you and keeping the US the most technologically and economically developed country in the world.
graphite · 56-60, M
When men are ordered to fight wars, they don't have a right to their own body. How many guys were shipped off to die in Vietnam against their will?
[@698333,graphite]

I think we can sum this up as you are against men being told that they have no right over their bodies.
[@698333,graphite] In case you haven't noticed, we've had an all-volunteer military in the U.S. for decades. Forced conscription was way overdue to be ended.

However, around two-thirds of soldiers in Vietnam were actually volunteers. The reason forced conscription ended was because it wasn't necessary. Military leaders also didn't want to deal with angry, resentful recruits who didn't want to be there. You don't hear about fragging incidents anymore.
graphite · 56-60, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] And men are still required to sign up for Selective Service at age 18, providing the government with a list of people disposable on the battlefield, if necessary. Only men make this list of disposable people. I had to sign up. (I wonder how many soldiers in Vietnam were drafted into the Army but, resigned to their fate, ended up "volunteering" for a stint in one of the other services, instead. Avoid the 2 years in the Army by getting perhaps a better deal with 4 years in the Navy or the USAF)
Jourzee · 36-40, M
I don't think Pro-life means telling a woman she has no right over her body. It's more like saying she has no right to murder an innocent life for her own reasons. I know it's more complex than this as there are some reasons where an abortion can be deemed necessary , but to abort a healthy life where there is no risk to mother or child is in my opinion murder.
[@841775,Budwick] You're the one who wants to hold a gun to a woman's head to force her to give birth, Buttmouth.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] [quote]hold a gun to a woman's head to force her to give birth,[/quote]

That seems a bit extreme.
Is that law in New York now?
[@841775,Budwick] No, it's the law in Georgia, pending review by the Supreme Court.
JesseInTX · 46-50, M
Yes it’s her body, but it’s THEIR child. It took a man and a woman to create the child.
[@543602,JesseInTX] Like many anti-abortion men, you act like pregnancy is no more inconvenient than a haircut. The woman bears the brunt of the pregnancy, so she should have more say in the outcome, until it's outside of her body and both parents have equal say.

If a man can force a woman to bear his child against her will, then a woman should be able to force a man to impregnate her against his will.
JesseInTX · 46-50, M
[@1026,HazelMotes] where in my comments did you read I was anti abortion? Where did I say the man has more say or even equal say. I said he has a say because they both contributed. I said it needs to be discussed. At this point I am done interacting with you on this post or any other. You have proved once again that reasonable discussion is next to impossible with a radical liberal such as yourself.
[@543602,JesseInTX] "Pro-choice" means [b]the woman[/b] decides if she wants to give birth, without having to consult anyone else. Of course, it would be nice if she took the father's wishes into account, but that shouldn't be a requirement, as it would take agency away from her.

Either you think women should be allowed to freely decide if they want to give birth, or you support restrictions. If you prefer not to call yourself "anti-abortion" because you support abortion rights under certain circumstances, I suppose that's fine. I just happen to disagree with [b]any[/b] restrictions, other than requiring doctors who perform abortions to be medically licensed.
PhpPhoenix · 31-35, M
I am pro-life, but life entails more than birth. Therefore I'm also for letting the parents decide whether a fetus is better off being born or relieved from misery before it even starts. They know better than any neighbor, stranger or politician.
[@1125975,PhpPhoenix]

That's a good point. All too many pro life advocates seem to lose interest after the birth.
smiler2012 · 56-60, M
so what you are saying if i read between the lines you are saying a man has no right in forcing woman to have an abortion i agree at the end of the day they have had there fun the men maybe a mistake but if you get a woman pregnant you should stand up to your responsibilities and stand by the woman and her child not take the easy cowards way out [@360493,pikachu]
smiler2012 · 56-60, M
[@1125975,PhpPhoenix] rather depends is it for medical reasons well it is upsetting for the woman i agree but if it going to put her in danger going through with the pregnancy
PhpPhoenix · 31-35, M
[@3749,smiler2012] that's what most abortions are for.
smiler2012 · 56-60, M
[@1125975,PhpPhoenix] i work in an operating theatre and obviously get these elective cases on the list it is very upsetting to see how distressed before these woman are before and afterwards it is heart breaking but you are right a necessity and a hard decision to call to abort
AuRevoir · 31-35, M
Well a lot of the abortions a body is clearly already formed so it’s a bit of a hypocrisy.. The best way to prevent all this is better implementation of condoms and safe sex measures..

And not only the body can be formed but the SW’s as well.. furthering hypocrisy when they abort a female..

I think only talking about a person rights.. and then discussing sentience.. would mean that we could kill anyone while they’re sleeping..

And I also believe the measure of life.. has a starting point.. and no single person would exist without conception.. so to me that will never add up.. conception is a process of existence..

If we smacked opportunity out of people’s hands and didn’t let them become doctors and closed down all the schools and told everyone they take too long.. to become something fully functional.. would people agree to this bizarre claim..

A human might take awhile to get out of an oven..

We call bread, bread.. but do we say it has to come into existence on its own as if from the sky??

No, there’s a process to it..

It’s a goopy sloppy mess.. just like sex..
Before it then needs to reach an oven.. just like something growing in the womb.. before it then finally goes “ding” and comes out as expected..

To me, I can’t change how anyone does things.. but just don’t lie to my face about it.. abortion is legal murder.. and we as humans have had the sickening propaganda of people trying their hardest to “justify” it by changing what they define as “life” when we all know the fact.. Without conception, life does not begin at all..

If it grows, and matures just like all life does.. just don’t lie about it.. it’s pointless and foolish to do that.. I think that’s our biggest issue as a society.. lying to others faces.. while playing a victim.. if you’re going to do such a thing no one can stop you anyway.. you can just as easily fake a miscarriage.. and having an abortion causes a very similar amount of strain in the body as does giving birth.. but it just comes with the lack of responsibility for taking care of your own gene pool..

And if someone thinks their gene pool is so abhorrent then that’s on them..

But just don’t lie to me about what it is.. that’s all I ask from people.. I’m sick of the pissing on people but telling me it’s rain syndrome that people got in their heads..

Yes there’s a lot of pressure a person can feel, before giving birth or not.. but it doesn’t mean they’ll stay happy with their decision all their lives.. people mid life crisis and regret it.. some regret it instantly.. and it’s not something that can be taken back either.. none of the issues are simple or black and white..

But the lying needs to stop.. it’s legalized murder.. and it’s a scary thing.. and we need more measures for giving people the means and understanding on practicing safe sex.. not only for abortion issues but for STD based ones as well..

It’s tragic, and people will do it regardless and I feel bad for the potential list in this world.. but.. we need to love the ones that are still around us.. we need to find more value in human life.. that’s all this issue speaks to me as a whole..
AuRevoir · 31-35, M
[@335805,LvChris] I’ll mark you down for someone who tries to say the brain needs the ear to hear..

Nothing about my process was poor you’re calling it poor without justifying an example of it being poor..

I already stated you can’t have the bread before taking steps to get it there first.. it’s literally in my post.. calling it by a different name doesn’t change the process on what gets it to become bread...... you’re basically trying to disagree that it does.. which makes your process poor, especially when leading without an example as to why that’s true..
LvChris · 41-45, M
[@410477,AuRevoir] It does though, there are many ways to handle dough to turn it into different types of bread. The process does change, a lot. You're very bad at this, and I'm done with it. I just wanted to point out that you're a boob.
AuRevoir · 31-35, M
[@335805,LvChris] Nah you’re bad at it.. You’re deflecting my specific analogy to say it must now Incorporate itself to every bread type tlknown to man.. and not only that you simply say such without using an example.. which is ooor once again.. no examples.. and deflecting to try and save face.. going outside the context of my example does not make you correct.. it makes you an asshat that thinks he can prove a point when all he’s doing is sounding like an idiot cuz he knows he was wrong I’m the first place.. my statement still stands..

Things have an origin to their process and without gray origin you can’t get to their desired purpose..
chairde · 26-30, M
At the end of the day, pro-lifers are not pro-life. They are pro-controlling women. They won’t admit it of course but it’s the truth.
Budwick · 70-79, M
[@1166899,chairde] Wow - you really ARE a commie!
kodiac · 18-21, M
The woman decided to have sex .Killing the baby because she messed up is wrong.
[@665475,kodiac]

So presumably you have no issue with abortion in cases of rape. That's good at least.
But regardless, no person has the right to another person's body whether they "messed up" or not.

If you are in a car accident with another person and you are at fault and they require a piece of your liver they still have no RIGHT over your body.
Mindful · 51-55, F
So you are anti-invading other countries for the to gain access to their assets because we have no right to take other people’s lives (I happen to believe we have no right to take other peoples possessions by force)
[@8567,Mindful]

Yeah that sounds good to me lol
sunrisehawk · 61-69, M
If it were that simple, men and women who believe in a God would all think that life is a miraculous gift and oppose the ending of life except possibly in self defense. All men and women who believe that life is just a cosmic accident would support your position. However, since there are believers who support abortion and non-believers who oppose it, it isn't simple.

And there is always a choice that leads to a fetus or any other result. Choices have consequences.
[@396546,sunrisehawk]

And sometimes the consequence is abortion. But what does that say about stripping women of their bodily autonomy?
Becksta · 36-40
Alternatively, a woman shouldn't have the right to use abortion as a means of getting back at men, either.

We have alternative methods of contraception that could be used to prevent pregnancy without resorting to abortion.

The decision should be reached jointly and in agreement before taking any action "I'm going to have an abortion because I don't think that you will make a good dad" is not a reason - you can't be certain unless he has a chance to demonstrate his ability as a father.
[@421598,Becksta]

As i've said elsewhere, i don't think abortion is a decision to be taken lightly and certainly not for vindictive reasons but at the end of the day, whatever the woman's motivation for the decision it must be [i]her[/i] decision because it is [i]her[/i] body.
Becksta · 36-40
[@360493,Pikachu] But, then again, the same argument could be used to deny men access to their children after birth.

The woman knows what is best for her child because it comes from within her body.

There's no reason for being a douche, no matter whose body, or which gender you are.

We all know how procreation works and how to avoid pregnancy if it isn't convenient - and (with the exception of rape) the vast majority of unwanted pregnancies can be avoided by both genders using forms of contraception in the first place... so abortion shouldn't be necessary in most cases.
[@421598,Becksta]

[quote]the same argument could be used to deny men access to their children after birth.[/quote]

No i disagree. That is an entirely separate argument because denying a man access to a child has nothing whatsoever to with the violation of his bodily autonomy.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
If men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at ATMs!!
[@763897,Harriet03]

lol
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
[@360493,Pikachu] It's NOT funny!!!!!!
[@763897,Harriet03]

Ah it's a little funny
Jake966 · 51-55, M
A woman has the right to have sex or not , if she chooses to do so then she needs to deal with an unwanted pregnancy . Keep the child or give it up for adoption is the options , in the case of rape I know of one woman and have heard of others who were brutally raped and saw the pregnancies through , they made the best of a horrible situation
Jake966 · 51-55, M
[@360493,Pikachu] I know a woman who was raped and stabbed during the rape because the sick SOB got off on it and she got pregnant as a result and went full term . The child was adopted by a deserving couple , she does not want the child to ever know who she is , she doesn’t want any contact but the child lived . No I don’t believe in abortion due to rape , don’t twist my words !!!!!!! I’m done chatting with you , ABORTION IS MURDER !
[@356705,Jake966]

And that was her choice. That was her exercising her own bodily autonomy.
[i]
So do you or do you not consider rape a legitimate reason for abortion?

So if you make the choice to text and drive and we get in an accident and i need one of your kidneys to survive, do i have the right to force you to accept the consequences of your actions and make you give me your kidney?[/i]

Or would you recognize that as a violation of your bodily autonomy?
[@356705,Jake966]

Oh sorry, i hadn't seen the edit that you were done talking to me.

[quote] No I don’t believe in abortion due to rape , don’t twist my words [/quote]

I wasn't trying to twist your words, merely make sure of your position.
So if you don't consider rape to be a reasonable condition under which to abort then DO NOT BRING UP REPONSABILITY as if you actually thought that was the reason a woman should be required to carry a pregnancy to term.
That makes you a hypocrite.

But your reluctance to respond to the scenario i raised already betrayed the fact that responsibility is not the issue in your mind.
You understand that in that instance it would be a VIOLATION of your bodily autonomy, it's just that you're happy to impose that violation on a woman.

[i]Now[/i], we're done talking😉
LvChris · 41-45, M
I love that, predictably, this has largely turned into "What do you think of abortion?" and veered extremely far away from your original question.
[@335805,LvChris]

Yeah i'll probably ask it again but insist on a more direct response to the question.
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
This is a bit of a go nowhere argument.

What many people don't seem to understand is that the rate of unwanted pregnancies goes down when abortions are allowed.

Areas that allow abortions also have sexual health education.

The argument over who gets to "control" the fetus is an unending one.

Focus instead on what's best for the community.

With that said, I'd be glad to argue with anyone who is opposed to education.
Mindful · 51-55, F
I think if a child is not wanted 100% , that child will not grow up being feeling loved and being encouraged on a daily basis... what will an unloved child be like in 15 years? There are exceptions, but my heart breaks when I hear all the sad stories and the number of people feeling uncared for, unloved, and hateful towards parents. I was unplanned but not unwanted. That’s very different.[@802348,JoeyFoxx]
Viper · 31-35, M
They really don't care man, they just want things done their way.


But yeah, the whole pro-life, take care of children, and death penalty abortion thing doesn't make any damn sense, as for as political parties go.

Democrats are pro-life for criminals (including convicted violent criminals) but not for innocent babies.

Republicans are pro-life for the innocent babies, but they're anti-funding the support systems to help single parents and/or orphans and other community help systems that will give them more of an equal opportunity, which sadly, some statistics suggest (and some suggestion these are bad statistics, while they're a negative one, I haven't seen any proof say they're wrong), suggesting those with less opportunities are more likely to become criminals, which the Republicans then are already with putting to death if their crime is enough.


Serious, I don't understand why the no party is simply on one side or the other, but they try to be on both sides of life/death.
Jake966 · 51-55, M
[@800884,Viper] planned parenthood ( if that is what you are talking about ) are in it for profit not helping women . In my area there are after school opportunities for kids to help them stay out of trouble
Viper · 31-35, M
[@356705,Jake966] I didn't mention them at all...
I don’t consider abortion to be murder. That’s why it’s legal. People get pregnant when they didn’t intend to. It happens all the time and sex is a natural urge. Further no one is making individual abort so it’s to each his own path.
What's the issue here? ._.
I live having discussions like this
LoveTriumphsOverHate · 31-35, M
Almost half of women are also pro-life. This isn't a male vs female issue, so stop the propaganda and sexism. Thank you very much.
[@1164612,LoveTriumphsOverHate]

I never made the claim that many women aren't pro-life.
This is a question specifically for men to consider this question from a female perspective.
So stop ascribing agendas and motivations to me. Thank you very much.
LoveTriumphsOverHate · 31-35, M
[@360493,Pikachu] If it really is their body and their choice, Let's end Medicaid, Medicare, WIC, section 8, SNAP and welfare. Women have to responsibility for their actions before they can claim my body, my choice.
[@1164612,LoveTriumphsOverHate]

I don't think i follow your logic there. Can you elaborate?
What does right to bodily autonomy have to do with Medicare?
ShayAdonia · 22-25, F
I personally am pro life however I don’t think abortion should be illegal. People should have the freedom to choose if they want one or not.
[@474305,ShayAdonia]

Good attitude👍
PhpPhoenix · 31-35, M
[@474305,ShayAdonia] That makes you pro-choice, which is far from pro-abortion.

 
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