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For the next idiot to claim Nazis were Socialists

"Hurr durr Nazis had socialist in the name so they were socialists":

[quote]The Economist magazine introduced the term "privatization" (alternatively "privatisation" or "reprivatization" after the German "Reprivatisierung") during the 1930s when it covered Nazi Germany's economic policy.

- [b]Edwards, Ruth Dudley (1995). The Pursuit of Reason: The Economist 1843–1993. Harvard Business School Press. p. 946. ISBN 0-87584-608-4[/b]

[b]Compare Bel, Germà (2006). "Retrospectives: The Coining of 'Privatisation' and Germany's National Socialist Party". Journal of Economic Perspectives. 20 (3): 187–94. [/b]
[/quote]

Btw - buffalo wings are made of buffaloes and sea lions are really feline lions. Nor are sea horses actually horses.

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI]
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M Best Comment
National Socialists were Socialists to the same extent the people of Communist East Germany were "Democratic Republicans"
@ChipmunkErnie that is pretty simplistic and Eastern Germany was sold a pack of lies during "re-unification."

irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
Hitler wanted the german economy to be run by a few large companies he could control as opposed to many small companies he could not. In that sense he was a socialist. USSR also has socialism in the name. See the pattern?
@irishmolly72 so Monopoly is a communist idea?
@BetweenKittensandRiots Venezuela is arguably the more successful model until a combination of a Saudi game of chicken crashed oil prices and New York oligarchs crashed the currency.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
@irishmolly72 [image deleted]
Economicdaily · 36-40, F
I love it when people use sources they don't actually read.👏
From your source
Retrospectives: The coining of Privatisation and Germany’s National Socialist Part. p.189-190
"Sidney Merlin published “Trends in German Economic Control Since 1933,” in the Quarterly Journal of Economics. Merlin agrees that Germany’s National Socialist Party was looking not only for business support, but also for increased Nazi control over the economy (p. 207): “The party, moreover, facilitates the accumulation of private fortunes and industrial empires by its foremost members and collaborators through ‘privatization’ and other measures, thereby intensifying centralization of economic affairs and government in an increasingly narrow group that may for all practical purposes be termed the national socialist elite.” Merlin was aware of Sweezy’s work, but instead of “reprivatization” he used the word “privatization,” which may be the first time this term is used in the social science literature in English."
Do you understand what your source is saying? Hitler "privatized" industry by giving control to Nazi Party members and Nazi organizations. He did not allow individual private control of the means of production as we use the word privitized today. He makes this clear in an interview with Richard Breiting, "I want everyone to keep what he has earned subject to the principle that the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control;every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State….The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners.”-Hitler
Against the mainstream: Nazi privatization in 1930s Germany explains how the Nazi Party used "Privatization"
"Whereas the modern privatization in the EU has been parallel to liberalization policies, in Nazi Germany privatization was applied within a framework of increasing control of the state over the whole economy through regulation and political interference."
Yes, Hitler and his Party were socialist in their own words and actions. Read "Those Damn Nazis" where they explain why they are socialist. Look at their government control of the means of production where "private property" was still subject to state control.
@Economicdaily Sorry but latching on to random statements that confirm simplistic right wing talking points is not a valid analysis of anything. So not only did you prove you don't understand nazi Germany you also have proven conclusively you have no understanding of socialism either. Well done.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
In addition:

IG Fargen was the company most involved in the Holocaust. It was a private company under private hands, ditto for Hugo Boss. Socialist leaders were jailed, sent to concentration camps and executed by Nazis. In addition, trade union leaders were arrested and most trade unions were banned.

Nothing socialist about that.
helenS · 36-40, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Mr Hugo Boss (the man, not the company) may have been a Nazi, but today they are just a fashion company and they sell good-looking clothes. When I buy something from Italy, should I do some research before I buy, to find out whether they supported Benito Mussolini in the past?
@helenS I just mentioned it for information purposes. What you choose to decide to do with the knowledge is up to you. Personally I am not a fan of companies that didn't pay reparations and instead doubled down on bad choices. Theissen Krupp comes to mind. Albert Krupp was the inspiration for Mr. Burns from the Simpsons.
helenS · 36-40, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow My problem is that you are right. 😐️
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basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Greenbare Lolno, most of it goes to the boss. See how much an Amazon worker gets vs what Jeff Bezos gets. Workers get far less taxes than the rich, and the rich are still billionaires. You guys defend billionaires.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@Greenbare Just as Planned Parenthood had its roots in eugenics. Margret Sanger went to conferences in Nazi Germany that focused on eugenics. After the war Planned Parenthood acted like it never happened.
bowman81 · M
Socialism is the government ownership or control of the means of production and distribution of goods.

The Nazi's seem to have done that quite effectively. Changing the definition to make you feel better about your political persuasion doesn't alter the fact that hundreds of millions of people died in gulags and re-education camps in the 20th century in the name of socialism. We have the 21st century's shining example of "democratic socialism": Just look what it has done to what was once the richest country in South America, Venezuela.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@bowman81 Only in it's most extreme version. Socialism is the basis of the greatness of the US. Socialist realities include public education, police, fire departments, public roads and transportation, workers rights and unions, Social Security, Meidcare, Unemployment insurance, etc., etc.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@bowman81 False, Nazis privatized industry and worked with industry leaders. Hugo Boss was a prominent Nazi and used Jewish slave labour. What's more is many wealthy businessmen invested in the Nazi regime.

Socialism refers to workers ownership of the means of production. There were no worker cooperatives in Nazi German, nor the Marxist variety of Socialism, the Nazis were Anti-Marxist.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@ChipmunkErnie Not entirely, you're thinking of Social Democracy which is Capitalism with a welfare state. You get two variants mainly of Socialism - Authoritarian (Marxist Leninist) and Libertarian (Anarchist and some Marxists), the former believes the state should own everything, the latter believes that worker should owned the businesses collectively without state interference or without a state.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Nazism had a Keynesian command economy that was the product of the time and military build up. Corporate profits increased and trade unionists were jailed.

Yes, anyone who claims that Hitler was a socialist is an idiot and its an attempt to say NAZIs were left wing instead of right wing. Nazism is a middle class authoritarian dictatorship which protects property rights when the legitimacy of bourgeoisie rule has collapsed. The alt right is an embryonic form of it, whether realised or not.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 Sounds nice, but ignores the fact that Germany was ruled by a corporate and political elite, not by middle class, and that it "protected" property rights only for the elite -- who got immensely rich off it, there even being claims that Hitler might have been the richest man in the world at the height of his power -- while giving that elite freedom to steal from others with impunity. I doubt the Jews, Gypsies, Communists, intellectuals, gays, etc, would agree their property was being protected when it was taken from them and they were sent to the camps.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@ChipmunkErnie Of course the property of minorities were not protected, but these were not the NAZI support.

NAZI support did come from the non Jewish middle class. These were people who felt threatened by Jewish business success, hated communists and also saw the Weimar government as incompetent and a sell out of German national identity.

Yes a corporate political elite benefited, even from the command economy.

My point about property rights was to demonstrate why NAZIs are not socialists. The socialists wanted to abolish (or nationalise) all property. The NAZIs allowed property owners the protection of an authoritarian state.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
The way to diffuse power in society is to strenghen the family,keep federal government small and distribute power to local governments. Have lots of competitive companies competing for the talents of a highly educated workforce. Socialist policies concentrate power and therefore defeat their own objectives.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@irishmolly72 Incorrect, Socialism literally just means worker ownership of the means of production.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@basilfawlty89 Incorrect. I wasn't defining socialism in that post, I was advocating against it and providing an alternative based on traditional American values.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@ChipmunkErnie Similar to the way Pol Pot protected the opressed in Cambodia? No thanks. I'll take diffusion of power in the way that the American founding fathers envisioned it, even with its obvious flaws.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Yep. Right wing Americanism does exactly the same thing. Takes words the rest of the world uses in there correct intended dictionary definition, and then uses them in political speech to give them different terms of reference.

The point about America calling itself a democracy is a good one !

Shameful they've been doing it since before independence.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
I don't think Nazism is necessarily defined by having nationalised industries and a controlled economy.

Its perfectly possible to have a pro capitalist neo liberal dictatorship. Like Pinochet's Chile
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
We would eventally get the same kind of result if Bernie Sanders "reformed" our economy. He would start out trying to do the right thing and it would spin out of control until a guy like Stalin or Hitler took over. History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
I hope you;re not trying to say Hitler had "the right thing" in mind. Did you ever even HEAR of MEIN KAMP, much less read it? Every evil thing Hitler did is openly laid out in that book. The Weimar Republic's economic collapse was caused by a combination of the economic collapse of the entire Western World's economy and the impossible reparations levied against Germany by the European powers after WWI. And I wouldn;t worry about Bernie -- we already have Trump claiming to be above the law and declaring America should have a "president for life", that libel and freedom of speech laws should be changed to stop criticism of his actions, etc.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@irishmolly72 Lol what Bernie wants isn't even socialism, it's social democracy as it's practiced in Norway and Sweden. The US has Social Democratic policies right now, otherwise there wouldn't be Social Security.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@basilfawlty89 Or public schools, or unions, or FEMA, or public libraries, or public roads, etc., etc., etc. Pretty much everything that has made America great has been called socialist when it was first introduced.
Niburu · 51-55, M
Buffalo wings are named after the city, not the animal.
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ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
IG Farben, Krupp, Audi, BMW, Bayer, BASF, Deutsche Bank, etc., etc. -- and those are just Nazi collaborators that were based in Germany, not outside the country. There are even reports of major US companies doing behind the scenes business with the Nazis after the start of WWII.
irishmolly72 · 56-60, F
@ChipmunkErnie not to mention the BIS - Bank for International Settlements
Jm31xxx · 41-45, M
Clues in the title. National Socialism.
Jm31xxx · 41-45, M
@ChipmunkErnie therefore there's never been communism either. Or seeing how a lot of people don't vote, true democracy too.

You seem to have a fetish for semantics. Splitting hairs over definitions must be a lot of fun for you.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
Actually, if you want to be really picky, no, there has never been a true "communist" nation -- the USSR, China, etc. have always preached a vague creed of "worker's rights", etc., but in the end were nothing more than dictatorships run by a powerful elite and there was no communism in the original sense of the philosophy of equal sharing and care for all members of a society.

As to "semantics" -- using the wrong word is not merely sloppy, it can be misleading.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@Jm31xxx So, you're saying buffalo wings are made from buffaloes and that sea horses and equines?

 
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