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Eighty Years On - Will We Ever Learn?

Eighty years since the first atomic bomb used in anger was exploded about 800 metres above Hiroshima.

Around 140 000 people were killed by the blast, heat and ionising radiation; many others were appallingly badly injured, or developed cancers later from the radiation.

A few days later a second was detonated above Nagasaki.

They did end the Second World War, which in Asia revolved around Japan's imperialist ambitions: she had invaded China in the 1930s, among other countries.

However, it was at terrible civilian cost because like an earlier, massive USAAF bombing raid on Tokyo using conventional weapons, these were deliberately dropped on civilian cities.

Not military targets, as the US government tried deceitfully to claim at the time, while the US President callously claimed it as saving "thousands of young American lives" (US Services' volunteers and conscripts.)


We can all hope the Nagasaki one was the second and last ever to be used.


Those two bombs were designed by a UK/USA consortium of physicists and engineers, not only Americans, but the decision to use them was taken by the Americans alone without consulting their allies.

They had intended yields of 20kilotonnes TNT equivalent. The Hiroshima one seems not to "used" all its enriched uranium, so the actual blast was nearer 16kt. (The rest of the uranium would have been evaporated in the explosion, and condensed among the fallout.)


The result?

Ending the War in Europe had included stopping the Nazis developing the atomic bomb; but since then the Soviet bloc and NATO countries built terrifying arsenals of uranium-fission bombs far more powerful than those two dropped on Japan; and the vastly more powerful hydrogen-fusion bomb of tens of Megatonne TNT equivalents.

The USA placed many of its nuclear bombs, both aircraft-delivered and on ballistic missiles, in Britain. Although that locating would have needed British agreement, we now know the USA would not have sought agreement or prior knowledge to launch them. Essentially the USA saw her allies' territories as sacrificial launch-pads, but was very well aware her own territory would have been a Soviet target too.


Those arsenals and associated war installations have been reduced by post-Soviet treaties, but the Russian Federation and the United States of America, and to a lesser extent the UK (and other NATO countries?) still have them; and we now see unpredictable regimes like North Korea and Iran building them in an increasingly precarious world.

....

Today Hiroshima is marking the anniversary with a memorial event in its "Peace Park" gardens established below the detonation point when the city was rebuilt.

The whole world must note, learn and never forget.
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Northwest · M
What convinced the US planners to use the bomb, was the battle for Okinawa.

We can Monday-quarterback as much as we want, but I am convinced that the US was looking at 1 million casualties to "win" the war.

The raids on Dresden (driven by Churchil's desire for revenge) and Tokyo, killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

83 years later, I live in the Nagasaki shadow. We still have not figured out how to get rid of the highly unstable sludge, stored in underground tanks at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, threatening an area that includes Seattle and Portland. Every time I drive by it, I'm reminded of Aug 9, 1945.

A significant number of scientists involved in the Manhattan Project were neither British nor American. Many were refugees, primarily from Europe, who had fled Hitler's persecution.
FoxyQueen · 51-55, F
@Northwest
I am convinced that the US was looking at 1 million casualties to "win" the war.

This is what I was taught in school. With Japan entering the war, the losses were going to be too extreme to justify and the "best option" was the bomb.

The bomb, however, has had enormous effects across the world for various reasons and those effects still linger.
Northwest · M
@FoxyQueen
This is what I was taught in school. With Japan entering the war, the losses were going to be too extreme to justify and the "best option" was the bomb.

The bomb, however, has had enormous effects across the world for various reasons and those effects still linger.

It's not just what they taught us in school. I do my own research, because history is often written by the winner, and people should do their own objective research, using critical thinking. In addition to going to classes, that sit on top of a part of the campus that was re-designed to cave in during a strong enough earthquake, because it sits on top of a nuclear reactor, that was secretly built as a precursor to the Manhattan Project.

During the battle of Okinawa, the Japanese military told all civilians that Americans are coming to rape and murder them, so families were duty bound to jump off the cliffs to their deaths. Women and Children included.The US military was able to prevent some of those deaths.

The US was not going to walk away and the only option was unconditional surrender.

E=MC2 meant that at some point, the bomb was going to be created. Even if we manage to put better people in power, there are Irans, South Koreas and Puins out there.
FoxyQueen · 51-55, F
@Northwest I admit, I don't research wars. I already know humans are the worst towards each other. So my knowledge is fairly base line, unless I have a good reason to research.

Out where I live, I'd say 95% of the men around here are war enthusiasts, their main focus being the battles of the Civil War and not the actual reasons for the Civil War. 🙄 Because why study the reasons when you can study how someone strategicly worked out how to kill other people? 🙄
Northwest · M
@FoxyQueen

I already know humans are the worst towards each other.

Homo homini lupus.

I don't research wars

I like history. It helps us understand what we area, and why we are the way we are. Most importantly, it provides an opportunity to learn from our successes and mistakes. For instance, if people rewind the clock only 100 years, they would recognize how fascism, and nationalism evolved, leading to absolutely nothing good, and how we're going now through a déjà vu, that put Trump in power, without realizing that history is going to repeat itself.

But if you live in an area where they obsess over civil war enactment, you might understand why these folks do not heed the lessons of history. If they're interested in learning anything at all.

Unfortunately, history is shaped by war.
FoxyQueen · 51-55, F
@Northwest I tend to think that so many people have not been impacted by actual war since the 60's, which would include the Silent Generation who aren't around in numbers to remind us of these things. Because of that, we have no point of personal reference to determine what is fascist propaganda and what isn't. Also, white supremacy have been on a rampant rise in the last 20 years, expanding into not just Christian cultures, but new age and pagan and when mixed with woo, becomes a whole other instrument of danger.

I know people here who can tell me the minutest details of civil war battles, but not why we had a civil war. That truth is too difficult to admit that you wanted people to be property, but not pay property taxes on them. Which, no matter how it is viewed is an absolute garbage position to have. So it's easier to focus on the battles where they don't have to view their positions.
craig7 · 70-79, M
@Northwest Many believe that the Dresden attack was also a warning to the Red Army of just what the RAF was able to do. It's also true that Dresden,and the great incendiary raid on Tokyo a few weeks later are frequently overlooked - as is the terrible experience of Okinawa casting grave doubt on plans to invade the Japanese home islands in November 1945.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@craig7 "Many believe" is one thing but was it true? The UK and USSR were allies against the Nazis; and Britain did not seem to regard Russia as a potential military enemy at the time.

The raid on Dresden was met by the similarly destructive bombing of Coventry by the Luftwaffe. As a symbol of reconciliation in the 1950s the German city presented Coventry with a statue to place in the new cathedral. (The original building was destroyed in the air-raid.)
craig7 · 70-79, M
@ArishMell As to Coventry,,on the night of the infamous raid,November 14 1940,my father was on a troop train halted about 10 miles outside the city until the "all-clear" came through - he also experienced the Blitz in London during the same time in 1940-41.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@craig7 Terrible times to live through...