Should christians be allowed to attempt to indoctrinate children with their beliefs? [Spirituality & Religion]

@theoneyouwerewarnedabout: My children are adults now. I had to protect them from christian zealots when they were younger.

The real control freaks are those christians who attempt to impose their delusions on others.

@theoneyouwerewarnedabout:
Control freak....like the Christian sects that brainwash people into physical, mental and sexual abuse.
If you can't formulate a valid reply then don't bother replying.

Royal commission into child abuse in Australia just ended. One of the findings.. It was a common trend that abuse victims that came forward to report abuse not many cases were reported after the 90's. Showing . Wether your hateful ass will acknowledge or not, the church has made great steps in cleaning up its act.. So stfu with your Christian bashing..

@theoneyouwerewarnedabout: Could you re-post that in reasonably coherent English?

@theoneyouwerewarnedabout: resorting to playground name calling is very mature.
I'm actually involved with the safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults in the Catholic Church.
One of my friends does the same job in the church of England.
You have absolutely no idea of the scale of abuse caused by people in the name of Christianity.
I have been privy to sensitive information about some of the abuse that went on in Australia and the evidence is damning.
America and Ireland are the worst for these types of crimes against the vulnerable.
Bishops were letting clergy get away with multiple counts of abuse, and many lay ministers were involved.
People who the victims should have been able to trust were the perpetrators of horrendous abuse.
So excuse me if I dont think that people should be allowed to indoctrinate their children in Christianity.
It should be personal choice.

@theoneyouwerewarnedabout:

Bigotry is only allowed if you are a Christian hating socialist . At no time in my experience with the church ( baptist) was I shown anything but kindness ,

@TexChik: Try telling them you don't share their beliefs. You'll find their attitude changes very quickly.

@suzie1960: not really . They step
Up their efforts to enlighten , but in the end it has to be the individual that accepts Christ in his or her own heart freely . Can't mandate that

@TexChik: That's not my experience. They start putting pressure on you to "guide you back" but, when that fails, it quickly turns to insults and threats.

@suzie1960: that's not my experience

@TexChik: Our experiences shape our views. Perhaps mine are more understandable now.

@Mummymozzie: this may sound like a dumb question but why have you introduced abuse into this discussion?

Abuse occurs in every walk of life. Why do you seem to be focusing on the abuse that has occurred in the Christian Church?

@room101: Mummymozzie just pointed out that christian sects have been known brainwash people into physical, mental and sexual abuse. It was in reply to theoneyouwerewarnedabout's suggestion that protecting children from those who would seek to exploit them makes one a control freak.

@suzie1960: I know what her point was but my question still stands. Abuse occurs everywhere so why focus on Christianity?

@room101: I'll leave her to answer that.

My question referred to christianity because that's the group I have most problems with.

@suzie1960: clearly Christianity is what you have most problems with and I'm still wondering why

@room101: You can't have encountered the type of arrogant christians I have. The arrogance displayed by some of them on this site is nothing compared to what I've met IRL.

@suzie1960: so because you've had to deal with some arrogant people who happen to call themselves Christians, you feel entitled to denigrate a global belief system and consider the teaching of that belief system (in a Christian country no less) as indoctrination.

Stinks like arrogance to me

@room101: Christian are the only group I've encountered that attempt to force their beliefs onto other, including (other peoples') impressionable children. They don't even recognize their religion is a belief system, they treat it as absolute reality. That's arrogance.

You call this a christian country, even though the majority of the population are not actively practising christians. That's another example of christian arrogance.

When christians attempt to force their BS on to me and my children, I consider I'm entitled to defend myself and protect my children. What would you do if Satanists attempted to indoctrinate your children with their beliefs?

I note that two respondents to my poll have said that only christians should be allowed to indoctrinate children with their beliefs. More christian arrogance.

@suzie1960: you mean your hatred ... that's all that's on display

@TexChik: You're blind to the truth. Yet another example of christian arrogance.

@suzie1960: The absurdity of your above reply is astonishing.

Christians are the only people that you've come across that attempt to force their beliefs on others? What ARE you talking about? Come to London or go to Birmingham or Luton or any of dozens of other places which I could mention, and the only people that you'll see doing that is Muslims.

Of course the UK is Christian, our history and our culture proves that fact. And the reality that not many people in the UK are practicing Christians proves that your accusation of indoctrination is bogus.

Of course somebody who follows a given belief system will view it as fact. That’s what faith is.

Eight people have replied to your poll, five have agreed with you, and yet you pick on the two that didn’t. And just look at the way you’ve structured your so-called poll. You give three choices, Satanism, Christianity or nothing. Talk about confirmation bias.

You don’t believe in Christ, I get it. But, you can no more prove that He doesn’t exist as I can prove that He does. And yet you insist that Christians are delusional and that the teaching of and the observance of Christianity in a Christian country is indoctrination.

You basically denied your children the opportunity to believe in something. And you’re trying to deny everybody else that same opportunity.

That’s ARROGANCE writ large.

@room101: None of the Muslims I've met, nor followers of other religions have tried to force their beiefs on to me, only christians have tried to do that. The others are willing to talk about their beliefs but they don't presume I share them. That's the big difference.

The only reason the UK is nominally christian is because the early christians had more ferocious warriors than the indigenous peoples. They invaded and slaughtered the Pagans they couldn't convert. That's why all the so-called christian festivals are Pagan in origin.

I said christians attempted to indoctrinate others, I didn't say they were particularly successful. Without the sword to back them up their attempts usually fail. That's probably why they often target children, they're more easily intimidated.

I'm interested in whether people believe only christians should be allowed to attempt to indoctrinate children with their beliefs, whether followers of other religions should also be allowed to or whether none should. I specifically identified Satanism as it's just another religion so would be included in "all religions". If you allow christians to prozelityze, why not allow Satanists the same freedoms?

Why is it so important to you the this is a christian country? Do you think it makes your beliefs somehow better that those of others? That's what I mean by arrogance. Have you ever seen the film The Wicker Man (the original with Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward)? That shows typical christian arrogance wonderfully - which leads to the downfall of the arrogant christian.

You say I basically denied my children the opportunity to believe in something. Actually I didn't, they know about the Old Gods and most of the more modern ones. Did you teach your children about non-christian beliefs and treat them as equal to christianity?

I'm not trying to deny anyone else that same opportunity either. As I say in my poll "I'm asking about christians attempting to indoctrinate children in general. I don't mean parents teaching their own children.

Thank you for providing yet another example of christian arrogance.

@suzie1960: Yet again, you’re talking complete and utter rubbish. Is it possible that Muslims (and others) don’t presume that you share their beliefs because nobody tries to convert someone who is already of that faith?

It’s not important to me that the UK is a Christian country. I’m merely stating a fact. One that you wish to deny. One that you try to befuddle with your warped understanding of how Christianity developed in the UK.

“Christianity gained a foothold in Britain by the mid-second century, but had yet to gain anything approaching religious supremacy on the island. Early Christian churches were local communal affairs - each board of elders was elected democratically by the community's inhabitants. Early Christians refused to bow before Roman authority as the Jews had previously done, and many were persecuted as enemies of the state (quite similar to the Druidic situation in Britain). Rome would tolerate native religious rites, but would brook no treason. The universality of the empire, however, paved the way for the universality of Christianity, as Christian missionaries travelled easily along Roman roads on evangelistic expeditions.”

http://www.britannia.com/church/bond1.html

Or maybe try this link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/history/uk_1.shtml

"We tend to associate the arrival of Christianity in Britain with the mission of Augustine in 597 AD. But in fact Christianity arrived long before then, and in the 1st Century AD, there wasn't an organised attempt to convert the British.

It began when Roman artisans and traders arriving in Britain spread the story of Jesus along with stories of their Pagan deities."

When I initially came across your poll, I was struck by its wording. It seemed very restrictive and rather pointed. However, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and so asked some questions. It’s now painfully obvious that your poll is designed to garner a very specific response.

You’re not interested in teaching children (or adults for that matter) about the options that are available, you’re just interested in bashing Christianity.

I don’t care whether you or anybody else is a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or an Atheist or whatever. Faith is something that either you have or you don’t. And we all have the freedom (at least, in this country) to express that faith, or lack thereof, in any way we see fit. Despite your ridiculous assertions of the contrary.

@room101: Quite obviously you can't debate logically, all you can do is call any view that doesn't concur with yours "ridiculous". Your statement that - is really ridiculous as it implies I'm a member of every religion except christianity.

I do not deny that the UK is nominally a christian country, only that it's irrelevant. It just allows christians to feel smug about being members of the "official religion" as if it gives validity to their beliefs. It's called argumentum ad populum, a technique used by those unable to refute a claim logically.

My poll is to guage opinion and, hopefully, to get some people to think about how they see different belief systems.

We have some freedom to express our beliefs but that doesn't alter the fact that the law in this "christian country" requires schools to force their students to attend daily christian assemblies. That some schools chose to break the law (thus setting a very bad example) is irrelevant.