At the core of it all is that real solutions take more thought and work than most will commit.

@dancingtongue all that you've written is exactly why i think the place to start is not in the political sphere.

I think common people need to start banding together and doing the math on meeting each others needs locally.

@CynicalSpaceMan I agree. Local is the foundation for everything. Don't like the education your kids are getting? Start volunteering at their schools and see for yourself if the problem is books and curriculum you don't like, or dilapidating school buildings from the 50s that need decades of delayed maintenance for the sake of tax cuts, disciplinary problems from over-crowding, underpaid teachers being asked to buy their own classroom supplies for the sake of tax cuts. Don't like all the potholes in the streets and inadequate public transportation? Think twice about that next wave of tax cuts and put the energy into electing local officials who want to solve those problems rather than placate the loudest screamers.

@dancingtongue i agree that the more we do ourselves the better off we would be for it.

@dancingtongue This is the perennial American issue. The citizens expect the nation to provide, but wont fund the nation to do so. But considering some of the waste in government, can you blame them for not wanting to pay tax??😷

@whowasthatmaskedman But how many decades of Starve the Beast must we endure before people realize the Beast keeps on eating well, while the infrastructure we are paying for keeps shrinking and rotting from lack of maintenance? We need to shift the focus to slaying the Beast, because it knows no famine. Every tax cut comes right out of what we expect from government into corrupt politician's pockets or more tax subsidies and tax cuts for the Oligarchs. It is a self-defeating strategy.

@dancingtongue While I empathise with you completely, this is a case of "you tell me.. I dont live there". So I could turn the question around and ask you. If it has been this way for this long, and with the terminal international debt, why dont all the sensible people who want a future for their families just pack up and leave, like their forebears did when they emigrated to the place from all over? I think we both know that America isnt coming back from a $40 Trillion IOU to the world..😷

@CynicalSpaceMan OK. I believe there are many other places, but lets say you are correct for the sake of the argument. Why arent the Netherlands full of Americans now?😷

@whowasthatmaskedman I know a couple who have upped and moved to New Zealand, Canada. Not younger generations raising families; my generation. Much harder transition. Unfortunately, too many of the younger generations have bought into this materialistic consumer mindset of credit card debt, never seeing how they have become slaves to debt.

@whowasthatmaskedman

Because nations aren’t empty apartments you can just move into.

Capacity is limited. Immigration is regulated. And most people have roots.

Some Americans do move abroad, but moving 100+ million people isn’t realistic.

@CynicalSpaceMan That is the polarizing viewpoint that has created this totally dysfunctional gridlock. There are things that only government can do, or does more effectively. Historically the postal service linked us, public education that we pioneered built a more educated work force, government incentives built a transcontinental railway system and interstate highway system, found the cures for major public health issues like polio, malaria, measles.

The solution is not the idyllic myth of the lone range rider taking care of himself, occasionally lending a hand in a community barn raising. The solution is finding a happy medium where government does what it can do better than individuals or private firms guided solely by bottom line profits. And that includes providing some base line safety nets for people, enabling them to devote more attention and time to just bare subsistence. And the Netherlands is not the only example of where it has shown to work: the Scandinavian countries, Australia & New Zealand, Canada to mention a few.

But to do so requires taking a step back from this ideological labeling, name calling, and finger pointing to listen and work together on workable solutions, not my way or the highway. Because both highways are barely navigable anymore due to neglect, if you haven't noticed.

@dancingtongue

I don’t disagree that governments have done important things at scale;

infrastructure, public health, education, national coordination.

Nor am I’m arguing for some lone-wolf myth or abolishing centralized systems altogether.

Where I differ is on dependency.

The issue isn’t that government exists or does useful things. It’s that nearly all essential needs:

housing
food
healthcare
energy
income

are structurally tied to centralized and hierarchical systems.

That creates leverage asymmetry. Even well-intentioned institutions tend to optimize for stability and self-preservation.

The government and market system has a monopoly on life itself. With that kind of power they simply have no incentive to improve anything.

What i propose is not about replacing government. It is about adding parallel, smaller-scale provisioning systems.

Co-ops, mutual aid, local food and housing models that operate lawfully and remain embedded in the broader society.

The goal isn’t secession. It’s resilience.

Large-scale coordination can coexist with decentralized structures. In fact, a mixed ecology is likely more stable than a monoculture of either pure centralization or pure market individualism.

So this isn’t “my way or the highway.” It’s adding side roads so neither highway has absolute control.

@CynicalSpaceMan
Agree, totally. Lived in a student-owned and student-run housing co-op when going to college, and volunteer a lot of time as well as money to it now as an alum. It provides room and board at half or less than university dorms do, or can. While teaching practical work skills and responsibilities that the dorms don't.

80% of the agriculture in California -- the biggest agriculture state -- is run by farm co-operatives.

Where government can do is help provide the incentives, the knowledge and stimulus for these type of communal efforts without people immediately screaming SOCIALISM.