What is your idea of Heaven ?

A close EP/R2T/AM/SW friend of mine died recently, and it has been really tough. We wrote often for over 1.5 years. She was special to me, very special. She appreciated me a lot, too.

I am an atheist, who does not believe in "supernatural" things, and this includes God, gods, spirits, heavens, hells, reincarnation, magic, miracles, etc. I do not think any energy or matter is special. I believe the physical rules that govern the world around us also govern us, including our brains and our "souls". I think that when we die that is it. The neural net decays and cannot be retrieved by current technologies (but who knows, maybe someday we can emulate brains flawlessly, store them, and reload them from backup and grow new brains, and bodies, too! Or dispense with the flesh and just be robots after we die). I believe that my dear friend's "soul", as encoded in her brain, is gone forever. She is not out there in some form for me to talk to, and she cannot talk to me. When I die we will not meet again.

Yet my pain has been so great, so intense. I have never lost somebody I loved this much. I miss her terribly. It has been three weeks, so it has been getting better, I admit. But there was a time a week ago when I felt so lost, so sad, so desperate, one might even say crazy (at least to me it seemed). My mind contemplated, seriously contemplated, that the supernatural might exist and that her "soul" might be still present in some form, which I could perhaps connect with while I yet lived. I started talking, almost the way religious people pray. Not so much to some god, but to her.

That has passed a bit, but still comes back to me. It is a struggle. Rationally I do not believe any of it could be true, but I want it to be true so much sometimes, that I find it hard at times to keep on moving forward without meditating and praying on it. I am in a strange place, and not sure of the outcome.

As an atheist I do not believe there are any supernatural powers. I used to scoff (inside, I was too polite to do so outwardly) at people who felt there was supernatural powers, spirit, God, etc. Yet now I understand, on a deep personal level, that a primary reason why faith and religious traditions arose, at first, was as a way to try to cope with the death of a loved one. It may seem obvious, but it was always just an intellectual thought with me, not too personal. Oh, I have had loved ones die, and I was really sad, but it never made me question my beliefs, or debilitate me like it has now, or driven me to a strange mental state, bordering on insanity. But the recent death of my friend has made me go to this place, because I want it so much to be true. I need it. I need to talk to her. The loss is devastating. She meant a lot to me.

I suspect as I slowly get over my intense grief, this state of mind will pass. But who knows? Maybe I will not be able to let it go. Maybe if it is real I will make a breakthrough? Or maybe give up. Or maybe decide I was just crazy and it was all insane. I do not know.

Thanks for reading.

Joyful silence:
I am so sorry for the loss of your friend.
I know when things happen unexpectedly it can leave you feeling empty and questioning everything you ordinarily hold dear.
And no matter how much you get used to the idea. It still makes no logical sense to you.
I know that your pain will subside with time. And it's my hope that it will leave you nothing but the good memories of a dear friend and the things you shared.

Thanks for your consolation. Yes, I have felt empty. I loved her so much.

It is subsiding. Slowly. And most of my memories are good. The only bad stuff was feeling pain because I loved her but she could not (and would not even if she could) love me. Oh, we were good friends, but that is all we ever would be. So before her death I was already depressed for months about that. Yet the way she made me feel was heavenly. So with the pain came bliss. Sigh.

We chatted on those sites, and before EP died I had saved the PM. I have since archived the PMs on the other three sites, including this one. Also, I have grabbed her public stuff. I want those memories in case it disappears over time.

Beautiful idea !!

@Picklebobble: thank you

@JoyfulSilence: I am truly sorry for your loss. It's clear your friend meant a great deal to you.

one day maybe you will know while you are still living

@Picklebobble: She meant a great deal to many. Even on here. She was on this site. But I met her on EP long ago.

@Softlywaking: It would be nice to know. I have been meditating on it. Thoughts and memories fill my brain, so it is hard to tell if it is just thought or something spiritual. I sometimes feel as if I am going mad.

I like the sound of that !!

@Picklebobble: I had a NDE when I was 14 years old...there is a type of beauty we can't even imagine because of the hurts and problems in this world.

No fears is already a Heaven for me. At least, the fears my mind creates. :-)

@twistermind: No fears or worries are what make any situation heaven

Eternal peace. Within us as individuals or as a species ?

The end. Our energy dissipated. The concept of an eternal soul makes no sense to me.

That's it ?
Lights out ?
No more ?

What i said

i have that thought too sometimes. i hate it.

Cheers youre so right

@Softlywaking: how often do you meet a sincere person or a kind heart. Not often its like were all badly flawed here.

For evermore ??

@Picklebobble: you know it Lol

For eternity ?
That's your ideal of Heaven ?

Yeah sounds nice maybe some hookers and coke

Scribbles: Any idea what that joy would feel like ?

doesn't joy feel like joy? ;p
or did you mean what would that joy look like as an idea?

I don't really know how to answer that. The most important things i've ever wanted out of life...was to be able to help others, to feel like I could unashamably be me and act as such...be as independent as I wish...and not feeling chained...and loving others and ...being loved I guess is one of the most important ones, and everyone being happy, healthy and content. Oh...and peace. Everything gets worked out...people bother to fix things, instead of giving up or justifying hurts...i'd wish there's more understanding and idk... less hate and pain and cruelty anyway.

That makes sense. I get that point of view !
Do you think there's an argument to be had in taking the OPOSITE view ?
That maybe our world as we know it might be considered Heaven ??

A place. Like a specific place? Or a certain town? Somewhere you enjoyed being ?

That's another reason it makes sense. If I die now. Will I eventually spend eternity with my wife or one of my other loves ;-)

Bijouxbroussard: I like the sound of that !!

Tested ?
How ?
Why ?

one thinks of something and it happens. How and why should wait for a while

@YMITheWayIM: FairPlay ! Sounds logical.

Lol. Sounds like an advertising slogan !!
" Heaven, is bacon !!"

This could be Hell as well, depends on who puts the meat lol!

Nothing that you'd like to think were true ?