Watching people play video games professionally is exactly as worthy as watching people play sports professionally
Vote and feel free to explain your reasoning.
Vote and feel free to explain your reasoning.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
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@Burnley123
Well that sounds like you're arguing that the fandom is more exciting for sports but that's just a matter of popularity.
If it's you sitting on the couch watching a football match on tv or me sitting on a couch watching a Halo match on tv...what's the difference?
Well that sounds like you're arguing that the fandom is more exciting for sports but that's just a matter of popularity.
If it's you sitting on the couch watching a football match on tv or me sitting on a couch watching a Halo match on tv...what's the difference?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu You've obviously never experienced this. It's like the difference between being on a rollercoaster irl and playing a rollercoaster game online. It's not the same.
Really caring about your hometown team and being part of a crowd. These are visceral and communal experiences,
Yes, elite computer game players have skill and provide a spectacle. In that sense it is comparable but the experience of being a football fan is something different. It's not logical but it is substantial.
Have you ever even been to to a major sports game? I think you are Canadian, so NHL games probably have a good atmosphere.
Really caring about your hometown team and being part of a crowd. These are visceral and communal experiences,
Yes, elite computer game players have skill and provide a spectacle. In that sense it is comparable but the experience of being a football fan is something different. It's not logical but it is substantial.
Have you ever even been to to a major sports game? I think you are Canadian, so NHL games probably have a good atmosphere.
@Burnley123
[quote]Really caring about your hometown team and being part of a crowd. These are visceral and communal experiences,[/quote]
Sure...but you're still just arguing that the fandom is more developed. You're arguing that the popularity of sporting events and the resulting communal experience is more exciting than that generated by an e-games event.
But that still just comes down to popularity of the event.
That's why i asked you i terms of just an individual watching the game on their own. What's the difference?
NHS games? Do you mean NHL games? I'm offended lol
No, never been to an NHL game but i have been to a couple OHL games. It's fun, i don't disagree.
[quote]Really caring about your hometown team and being part of a crowd. These are visceral and communal experiences,[/quote]
Sure...but you're still just arguing that the fandom is more developed. You're arguing that the popularity of sporting events and the resulting communal experience is more exciting than that generated by an e-games event.
But that still just comes down to popularity of the event.
That's why i asked you i terms of just an individual watching the game on their own. What's the difference?
NHS games? Do you mean NHL games? I'm offended lol
No, never been to an NHL game but i have been to a couple OHL games. It's fun, i don't disagree.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu [quote]Sure...but you're still just arguing that the fandom is more developed. You're arguing that the popularity of sporting events and the resulting communal experience is more exciting than that generated by an e-games event.[/quote]
Yes. And that matters.
Yes. And that matters.
@Burnley123
That matters to your experience of a live game, not to the question of whether the watching other people play a game is more or less worthy depending on whether it's playing with a ball or a controller.
Seriously, how would you answer in terms of just you watching a match on the television vs someone watching a professional Destiny match?
That matters to your experience of a live game, not to the question of whether the watching other people play a game is more or less worthy depending on whether it's playing with a ball or a controller.
Seriously, how would you answer in terms of just you watching a match on the television vs someone watching a professional Destiny match?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu It's changing the terms. The real experience of football is being at the game. As AC Milan fans demonstrated in the video. Aesthetically, there is value in E sports but it is not the same. Maturbating is not making love.
@Burnley123
I'm not changing the terms. I think maybe you just initially misunderstood the terms. Which is fine.
You're making the case that traditional sports are way more exciting to watch live because look at all this associated stuff.
I was asking whether there was a difference in the validity of watching professionals play e-sports vs traditional sports.
Whether or not you get as excited comes down to personal preference. At that point you could just as well be arguing that watching hockey is not as worthy as watching football because hockey doesn't interest you as much.
Or in terms of the fandom you might as well be arguing that disc golf isn't as worthy as watching football because you don't get full stadiums of chanting crowds at a disc golf game.
[quote]Maturbating is not making love.[/quote]
lol well i think that's fine analogy for solo watching vs watching with a crowd.
I'm not changing the terms. I think maybe you just initially misunderstood the terms. Which is fine.
You're making the case that traditional sports are way more exciting to watch live because look at all this associated stuff.
I was asking whether there was a difference in the validity of watching professionals play e-sports vs traditional sports.
Whether or not you get as excited comes down to personal preference. At that point you could just as well be arguing that watching hockey is not as worthy as watching football because hockey doesn't interest you as much.
Or in terms of the fandom you might as well be arguing that disc golf isn't as worthy as watching football because you don't get full stadiums of chanting crowds at a disc golf game.
[quote]Maturbating is not making love.[/quote]
lol well i think that's fine analogy for solo watching vs watching with a crowd.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu Unlike politics (which you and I mostly agree on) the whole point of enjoying sport i subjective experience. ANd what is that experience?
I it appreciating competition,: the skill of the players and the aesthetic quality of the contest? Of course. It's also an experience of group identity and belonging on an emotional level. I don't see E-sports providing that. You don't come from this background and this isn't an experience you have had. That i fine and understandable. But you don't get it. The fan experience matters and is the soul of going along with the cheap thrills.
I it appreciating competition,: the skill of the players and the aesthetic quality of the contest? Of course. It's also an experience of group identity and belonging on an emotional level. I don't see E-sports providing that. You don't come from this background and this isn't an experience you have had. That i fine and understandable. But you don't get it. The fan experience matters and is the soul of going along with the cheap thrills.
@Burnley123
But why can't e-sports provide that experience?
It currently doesn't ( as far as i know, never attended a live event) but that's still down to popularity.
Like you're not going to get the same experience going to a disc golf championship as you are going to get in the NHL playoffs.
Does that make disc golf less worthy than football as a sport to watch?
I get the thrill of watching in a crowd, like i said, i have been to some live matches. But it seems to me your argument boils down to "E-sports aren't as popular as football so live events are less exciting".
Is that wrong?
But why can't e-sports provide that experience?
It currently doesn't ( as far as i know, never attended a live event) but that's still down to popularity.
Like you're not going to get the same experience going to a disc golf championship as you are going to get in the NHL playoffs.
Does that make disc golf less worthy than football as a sport to watch?
I get the thrill of watching in a crowd, like i said, i have been to some live matches. But it seems to me your argument boils down to "E-sports aren't as popular as football so live events are less exciting".
Is that wrong?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu Well potentially it might do if e-sports have evoked a city or regional identity back a hundred years, and have songs and tribalism, The potential exists but it's a stretch. Eighty thousand fans singing in unison at the San Siro about their passion for a Halo 3 player who has a kills record they like? Well, this doesn't quite work. It is a culture you can't relate to and I get it.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu Hey, I generally like your posts and you are smart but this is a big thing for me and a big difference in our life experiences.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Pikachu Burnley. Currently bottom of the Premier League. 🤣
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
I do actually really like the Milan fan's song. Even though I have no connection to the team, it would be great to be there. Worldwide, the San Siro is an iconic stadium. Football here is more commercialised. We have 'better' and more modern stadiums but maybe without the same soul.
Oh yeah and that Forza Italia song is cringe.
Oh yeah and that Forza Italia song is cringe.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Burnley123 I have extended family that live like one road crossing away from San Siro, yet they're not football fans. There's a saying here that is roughly like "[i]bread tends to go to those that are without teeth[/i]" lol
I remembered it was cringe but not this cringe, especially because I think I had only heard it without seeing the official video. People in the call center near the end of the song that probably make €700/mo if they're lucky, dreaming about Berlusconi, is one of the strongest images I have ever seen. 🤣
I remembered it was cringe but not this cringe, especially because I think I had only heard it without seeing the official video. People in the call center near the end of the song that probably make €700/mo if they're lucky, dreaming about Berlusconi, is one of the strongest images I have ever seen. 🤣
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Elessar It's funny but really sad. I bet (aside from the paid actors in that shot) they were forced to be there by their boss. They would have been Berlusconi employees or one of his 'associates'.
Berlusconi could do cringe and get away with it though. His first job was as a crooner (singer) on a cruise ship. He and Reagan led the way in merging showbiz with politics and it ended up with the Orange One.
For all; the corruption and bad things he did for Italian politics, he was actually a fantastic football club owner. Yes, I know he spent a lot of money and it was partly to help his political brand but his decisions were also savvy. His choice to appoint Arrigo Sacchi (then an unknown) was inspired and brought about a revolution in European football tactics. Not to mention a lot of trophies for Milan.
In the 90s they used to show Italian football on British TV and it got big viewing figures. In those days, it was the world's best league.
Berlusconi could do cringe and get away with it though. His first job was as a crooner (singer) on a cruise ship. He and Reagan led the way in merging showbiz with politics and it ended up with the Orange One.
For all; the corruption and bad things he did for Italian politics, he was actually a fantastic football club owner. Yes, I know he spent a lot of money and it was partly to help his political brand but his decisions were also savvy. His choice to appoint Arrigo Sacchi (then an unknown) was inspired and brought about a revolution in European football tactics. Not to mention a lot of trophies for Milan.
In the 90s they used to show Italian football on British TV and it got big viewing figures. In those days, it was the world's best league.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Burnley123 It actually makes sense to me; he was a bad politician but not a bad businessman. I mean, he's not Musk or Trump who'll turn anything they touch into an imminent and oftentimes laughable bankruptcy, the real problem that many people here still have a hard time figuring out is indeed that being a good businessman doesn't make you a good politician; a country isn't a business, a government's main purpose isn't generating profit.
Those were likely paid actors or employers indeed, but I remember that his cult wasn't really different than modern rightwing cults, people like those portrayed in that vid definitely existed/exist.
Those were likely paid actors or employers indeed, but I remember that his cult wasn't really different than modern rightwing cults, people like those portrayed in that vid definitely existed/exist.
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