"So the Lord was sorry that He had made mankind on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

@MartinTheFirst So, he made LGBTQ+ people too?
Please tell the hate filled people that are attacking these people who simply want to live their lives and have the same rights as everyone else.

On the other hand, god purposely created kids with birth defects or terrible things like cancer and cystic fibrosis?

@JSul3 All these things where came into existence as a result of our first ancestors attaining the knowledge of good and evil... Once creation was sabotaged then all these deviancies came into existence..

But we can hate what is evil and love what is good and through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus we can be Redeemed from this faulty world,, from our faulty selves..

@Adstar [quote]All these things where came into existence as a result of our first ancestors attaining the knowledge of good and evil... [/quote]

We have observed genotypes involving XXX, XXY, XYY and X0 (Turner syndrome) sex chromosomes. And we've observed human phenotypes with a range from no functioning sex organs to varying amounts of male & female sex organs on the same individual (these are often called intersex). Genetic mosaicism is where the X and Y chromosomes are expressed differently (from the most common expression) on different parts of the body (these phenotypes are also often described as intersex and sometimes hermaphrodite).

These are all observable biological phenomena that either God or Nature brings into animals and humans. Are you, @Adstar, suggesting that none of these genetic variations would have occurred anywhere in the animal kingdom if Eve hadn't bitten that apple???

@ElwoodBlues You're talking about disabilities here

@MartinTheFirst No. I'm NOT talking about disabilities. I'm talking about natural variation. Some women with genetic mosaicism turn out to be world class athletes. That's hardly a disability!!

BTW, I gather you're familiar with the Bible; are you at all familiar with the Talmud?

@ElwoodBlues You are talking about disabilities. Genetic defects. Rare mutations from what is [i]normal[/i]. 🙃

@MartinTheFirst No, I'm talking natural variation. Einstein was a rare mutation from what is "normal." So was Beethoven. So was Michelangelo. Are you gonna eject them from the Human family because they're not "normal"?? My kid went to school with a kid who was born with an extra digit on each hand; later removed medically. Are you gonna deny that kid's humanity on the basis of that abnormality? What's so special about "normal" anyway???

P.S. are you totally unfamiliar with the Talmud?

@Adstar So you are saying innocent children who are victims of these horrible maladies are all part of god's devine plan?
If so, to hell with god for doing it or allowing these things to happen to poor innocent children!

@ElwoodBlues nope, they were all pretty normal people lol. Don't confuse intellect and artistic skill with genetic defects.

@MartinTheFirst [quote]nope, they were all pretty normal people lol.[/quote] And you know this how?? Geniuses are extraordinarily rare, and we don't know what's different about their minds. But if you've ever studied relativity or quantum mechanics, you'll know the mind of a genius is not like yours or mine.

BTW, I find it odd that you keep using the word "defect" for what you also consider to be God's creation - people with XXX XXY XYY, X0 etc. Now you're admitting God makes mistakes??

@ElwoodBlues Geniuses are extraordinarily rare because it's increadibly rare for people to have an upbringing that causes them to feel like it's worth it to spend all their waking hours to work. There's nothing special about them, but a drive that most don't have.

God doesn't make mistakes.

@ElwoodBlues

[quote]God makes mistakes??[/quote]


God cursed the world because of our sins both (genetically and by choice). All birth defects and problems are because of our sins. When Jesus comes back any day he will create a new heaven and a new earth with NO defects.

[b]Genesis 3:17 [/b]
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' [b]“Cursed is the ground because of you; [/b]through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.

@MartinTheFirst [quote]He doesn't make mistakes[/quote]
Then it is your contention that the Bible contains lies? Why would God be sorry he made humans if it were not a mistake? Either the Bible contains a true accounting of how God felt, or it does not.

@Carazaa Why would God create a world full of defects in the first place? Why would he not make everything perfect?

@CorvusBlackthorne 😮‍💨

@Carazaa I have to say I'm troubled by the idea that because some people somewhere sinned, therefore thousands of thalidomide babies are born with damaged eyes or missing limbs. Why punish the babies instead of the sinners?

@ElwoodBlues Adam and Eve were the first two people alive, and all other people have come from them. The fact that they were the one that sinned caused it to trickle over to everyone coming after, with not a single person able to avoid sinning themselves. Due to this, God removed his hand from us as we were no longer perfect and not worthy of eternal life, allowing us to develop disease so that that we will eventually all die. That's why disease exists, because we rebelled against God, and you're continuing the tradition.

@MartinTheFirst I have relatives who are devout Quakers, and they don't believe in original sin. Regardless, the idea that babies in the womb could have sinned badly enough to deserve what thalidomide did - its damage occurs in the first several weeks of gestation - I find that idea very troubling.

@ElwoodBlues Babies don't sin, but their parents have. However, their parents aren't the reason alone why their babies become sick, it's their parents fault who have sinned, and then their parents, and on and on through hundreds of generations... The diseases builds up from each generation by biological means, not because they sin and there's something magical about it. However, because God does not cure them due to their sinning, their diseases keeps piling up.

@MartinTheFirst You say "The diseases builds up from each generation by biological means," but that doesn't fit thalidomide. Thalidomide was a drug that effectively reduced nausea in many patients. It was only when thalidomide was given for the nausea of pregnant mothers that they discovered its terrible teratogenic properties. At the time the babies without limbs, etc were being born, thalidomide was undergoing an unsupervised drug trial in the US. An alert woman at the FDA got the drug trial halted, but much damage had already been done overseas.

Nothing about thalidomide "builds up from each generation by biological means," instead one dose at a sensitive time during gestation does terrible damage.

@ElwoodBlues Theoretically it doesn't get passed down between generations, but I believe all of these things leaves scars on the human existence, slowly, unnoticeably, but surely.

@MartinTheFirst You are ducking the thalidomide question. We know exactly how the thalidomide babies got damaged and it wasn't something accumulating for hundreds of generations.

And, as I keep repeating, I'm troubled by the idea that because some people somewhere sinned, therefore thousands of thalidomide babies are born with damaged eyes or missing limbs.

Why punish the babies - during the first several weeks of gestation - instead of the sinners? For me that's the crucial question in all this.

@ElwoodBlues I understand that you think you're making a logical point, but it just isn't so. If I were to cut off your arms, then you'd be armless... That's not a mystery to me.

@MartinTheFirst Why punish the babies - during the first several weeks of gestation - instead of the sinners? For me that's the crucial question in all this.

“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life." That was the Old Testament and thus the old Covenant. What about the New Covenant? Does the New Covenant punish babies for sins from 100 generations ago?

@ElwoodBlues He isn't punishing the babies? People are doing it?

@MartinTheFirst You've told me people suffer because of the sins their forefathers, going all the way back to Adam & Eve.

I'm asking why sinless thalidomide babies had to suffer; why not the sinning forefathers.