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ViciDraco · 36-40, M
Why would a good god need to send anyone to save his creation? Why not make his creation good in the first place?
Look what I've done to save you from myself!
Things are hard, but you can rely on me. It's my strength because your own isn't enough. You all call that good when it's biblical, yet somehow when government sponsored safety nets try to actually help people it is considered establishing dependence so they can control you.
Context is key, and the context you select can paint most anything as good or bad.
Ultimately, I view god as a fictional construct so I don't have to worry about whether he is good or evil. But from purely literary criticism he can be both or neither based on a reader's point of view.
Look what I've done to save you from myself!
Things are hard, but you can rely on me. It's my strength because your own isn't enough. You all call that good when it's biblical, yet somehow when government sponsored safety nets try to actually help people it is considered establishing dependence so they can control you.
Context is key, and the context you select can paint most anything as good or bad.
Ultimately, I view god as a fictional construct so I don't have to worry about whether he is good or evil. But from purely literary criticism he can be both or neither based on a reader's point of view.
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ViciDraco · 36-40, M
@GodSpeed63 Continuing to dodge the question tells me that you realize that thinking critically about the implications of 'His Word' leads to either fallibility or callousness which are things you cannot admit out loud.
If there is a perfect, non-fallible and benevolent god that really exists, it is not described in or by the Holy Bible or any other popular holy book presently on this earth.
If there is a perfect, non-fallible and benevolent god that really exists, it is not described in or by the Holy Bible or any other popular holy book presently on this earth.
LordShadowfire · 46-50
@GodSpeed63 [quote]What truth would that be? What do you think it is?[/quote]
That the book you base your entire life on has more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.
[quote]Read His Word, what does He say about Himself?[/quote]
Nothing. It is written by humans.
That the book you base your entire life on has more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.
[quote]Read His Word, what does He say about Himself?[/quote]
Nothing. It is written by humans.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@LordShadowfire [quote]That the book you base your entire life on has more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.[/quote]
Would you care to elaborate.
[quote]Nothing. It is written by humans.[/quote]
According to whom.
Would you care to elaborate.
[quote]Nothing. It is written by humans.[/quote]
According to whom.
SW-User
Fear not, for I am with you;
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’
[b][/b]Certain restrictions apply[b][/b]
Non covered actions;
( [i][/i]Auschwitz, or any other genocidal action, global war, school shootings, rapes, murders, criminal acts toward children, drunk drivers, civil unrest,
Actions by hate groups, small actions by corrupt politicians, war profiteering.
Covered activities ( touchdowns and any other last second sports win.[i][/i]
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’
[b][/b]Certain restrictions apply[b][/b]
Non covered actions;
( [i][/i]Auschwitz, or any other genocidal action, global war, school shootings, rapes, murders, criminal acts toward children, drunk drivers, civil unrest,
Actions by hate groups, small actions by corrupt politicians, war profiteering.
Covered activities ( touchdowns and any other last second sports win.[i][/i]
SW-User
@GodSpeed63
You can’t prove god exists. It’s your act of faith.
Science isn’t in the business of proving or disproving the existence of a god.
That being said you can’t rely on an ancient set of texts to establish how “ good“ your god is..
Particularly, a set of books that was cobbled together to fit a narrative.
You can’t prove god exists. It’s your act of faith.
Science isn’t in the business of proving or disproving the existence of a god.
That being said you can’t rely on an ancient set of texts to establish how “ good“ your god is..
Particularly, a set of books that was cobbled together to fit a narrative.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@SW-User [quote]You can’t prove god exists.[/quote]
Why should I prove a fact that's already been proven by God, Himself?
Why should I prove a fact that's already been proven by God, Himself?
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SnailTeeth · 36-40
It's not God we're afraid of... It's the crazy people who believe in God. (And I'm not saying all people who believe in God are crazy)
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@SnailTeeth [quote]Hey, I'm not against you at all.[/quote]
Nor am I against you at all.
[quote]All I can tell you, is that I woke up in a room of people with their heads bowed, all from various religions, all praying to their own different idols. Arguing amongst themselves endlessly over things that could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And it just seemed idiotic. It seems like a fruitless endeavor.[/quote]
You're right, it is a fruitless endeavor. What you don't understand is that it's not about religion, it's about a close relationship with God in heaven as He desired in the first place.
[quote]All I want is to be happy.
That's all I want for anyone.
Comfort when comfort is desired.
Unconditional food and shelter for all.
Work towards higher goals, not just lining our pockets.
It's nice to have everything, but only if you have others with whom to share and appreciate.[/quote]
If you want to live in a perfect world, get saved. This fallen world of ours will not last much longer and God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Here there will no more sorrow, or pain, or suffering, or even death. This is God's promise to those who will worship Him in deed and in truth. I hope to see you there.
[quote]I think God kills a lot of appreciation.
God dulls a lot of compassion and consideration.
God becomes a javelin for many.
I don't blame God, I just think the idea is a tool that is fashioned to serve the ego, while scapegoating accountability/consideration. God is a nice hole where people bury their regrets and wipe their hands clean.[/quote]
It's obvious that you don't know Him or is Word.
[quote]Truth is just whatever the victors of history decide.[/quote]
The Truth belongs to God and Him alone. He shares it with whom He wills to share it.
Nor am I against you at all.
[quote]All I can tell you, is that I woke up in a room of people with their heads bowed, all from various religions, all praying to their own different idols. Arguing amongst themselves endlessly over things that could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And it just seemed idiotic. It seems like a fruitless endeavor.[/quote]
You're right, it is a fruitless endeavor. What you don't understand is that it's not about religion, it's about a close relationship with God in heaven as He desired in the first place.
[quote]All I want is to be happy.
That's all I want for anyone.
Comfort when comfort is desired.
Unconditional food and shelter for all.
Work towards higher goals, not just lining our pockets.
It's nice to have everything, but only if you have others with whom to share and appreciate.[/quote]
If you want to live in a perfect world, get saved. This fallen world of ours will not last much longer and God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Here there will no more sorrow, or pain, or suffering, or even death. This is God's promise to those who will worship Him in deed and in truth. I hope to see you there.
[quote]I think God kills a lot of appreciation.
God dulls a lot of compassion and consideration.
God becomes a javelin for many.
I don't blame God, I just think the idea is a tool that is fashioned to serve the ego, while scapegoating accountability/consideration. God is a nice hole where people bury their regrets and wipe their hands clean.[/quote]
It's obvious that you don't know Him or is Word.
[quote]Truth is just whatever the victors of history decide.[/quote]
The Truth belongs to God and Him alone. He shares it with whom He wills to share it.
SnailTeeth · 36-40
@GodSpeed63 [quote]If you want to live in a perfect world, get saved. This fallen world of ours will not last much longer and God will make a new heaven and a new earth. Here there will no more sorrow, or pain, or suffering, or even death. This is God's promise to those who will worship Him in deed and in truth. I hope to see you there.[/quote]
Every past generation has preached this nonsense, and every past generation has been wrong.
You say that only God knows the truth, but that's objectively impossible, as I've clearly tried to rationally argue. Every argument I give you, you just throw up the God defense, and you blindly believe in your circular logic.
It's exhausting. You're exhausting me with this idiocy. And it is idiocy by definition, because there's not a lick of logic to it. It's frustrating trying to talk to you, because you're being unreasonable.
So go on, reply with whatever nonsense you choose. If it's another BS line about God, then don't even expect a response. This is childish and pointless.
Every past generation has preached this nonsense, and every past generation has been wrong.
You say that only God knows the truth, but that's objectively impossible, as I've clearly tried to rationally argue. Every argument I give you, you just throw up the God defense, and you blindly believe in your circular logic.
It's exhausting. You're exhausting me with this idiocy. And it is idiocy by definition, because there's not a lick of logic to it. It's frustrating trying to talk to you, because you're being unreasonable.
So go on, reply with whatever nonsense you choose. If it's another BS line about God, then don't even expect a response. This is childish and pointless.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@SnailTeeth [quote]Every past generation has preached this nonsense, and every past generation has been wrong.[/quote]
Every past generation has claimed that it would come in their lifetime. I'm not claiming that.
[quote]You say that only God knows the truth, but that's objectively impossible,[/quote]
With God, all things are possible. There is nothing impossible with Him.
[quote]It's exhausting. You're exhausting me with this idiocy. [/quote]
Forgive me but you keep failing to prove anything you say is true. How am I supposed to know that you're telling the actual truth if you can't or won't support it?
[quote]because there's not a lick of logic to it[/quote]
Get to know what logic is first before you start talking about logic. There's human logic that is fallible, then there's Godly logic that is infallible. Know the difference.
[quote] It's frustrating trying to talk to you, because you're being unreasonable.[/quote]
How am I being unreasonable?
[quote] This is childish and pointless.[/quote]
If it's childish and pointless, it's on your part. I've been patient with you hoping that you'll try to support what you claim is true and you haven't done it yet. You claim to be rational about this and yet, all I've seen is you being irrational about it. Understand, this is my observation of our conversation. On my end, I'm trying to get at what's right, on your end, you just want to be right whether you're actually right or not. You're forgetting that this is about truth and lie, not about who's right or wrong. Savy?
Every past generation has claimed that it would come in their lifetime. I'm not claiming that.
[quote]You say that only God knows the truth, but that's objectively impossible,[/quote]
With God, all things are possible. There is nothing impossible with Him.
[quote]It's exhausting. You're exhausting me with this idiocy. [/quote]
Forgive me but you keep failing to prove anything you say is true. How am I supposed to know that you're telling the actual truth if you can't or won't support it?
[quote]because there's not a lick of logic to it[/quote]
Get to know what logic is first before you start talking about logic. There's human logic that is fallible, then there's Godly logic that is infallible. Know the difference.
[quote] It's frustrating trying to talk to you, because you're being unreasonable.[/quote]
How am I being unreasonable?
[quote] This is childish and pointless.[/quote]
If it's childish and pointless, it's on your part. I've been patient with you hoping that you'll try to support what you claim is true and you haven't done it yet. You claim to be rational about this and yet, all I've seen is you being irrational about it. Understand, this is my observation of our conversation. On my end, I'm trying to get at what's right, on your end, you just want to be right whether you're actually right or not. You're forgetting that this is about truth and lie, not about who's right or wrong. Savy?
SatyrService · M
thatbuggerpaul · 100+, M
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@thatbuggerpaul @LushMagic [quote]Sounds like copied and pasted bullshit to me[/quote]
So, where's your evidence and facts to support your claims?
So, where's your evidence and facts to support your claims?
thatbuggerpaul · 100+, M
@GodSpeed63
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:11-13
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:14-17
For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
Luke 9:56
10
Fear not, for I am with you;
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’
Isaiah 41:10
3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 john 3:1-3
Does this sound like an evil God to you?
There it is
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:11-13
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:14-17
For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
Luke 9:56
10
Fear not, for I am with you;
Be not dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you,
Yes, I will help you,
I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’
Isaiah 41:10
3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 john 3:1-3
Does this sound like an evil God to you?
There it is
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@thatbuggerpaul [quote]There it is[/quote]
Where? All I see is the truth, so where's your evidence that says it's not true?
Where? All I see is the truth, so where's your evidence that says it's not true?
LordShadowfire · 46-50
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@LordShadowfire @LushMagic [quote]Sounds to me like it's cherry-picking season again.[/quote]
the only cherry-picking I see around here are from you people, Lush, you can't even support your own claims for crying-out-loud.
the only cherry-picking I see around here are from you people, Lush, you can't even support your own claims for crying-out-loud.
LordShadowfire · 46-50
@GodSpeed63 Gee, whiz, that's funny. Because you literally ignored the entire Old Testament with the exception of the parts where God is saying how much he loves his creation.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@LordShadowfire [quote]Gee, whiz, that's funny. Because you literally ignored the entire Old Testament with the exception of the parts where God is saying how much he loves his creation.[/quote]
God's been loving His creation since the beginning.
God's been loving His creation since the beginning.
Judges 11: 29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
Isaiah 45: 5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@NativePortlander1970 [quote]7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.[/quote]
So?
So?