The Lie: There Are Many Paths To God - The Truth: Jesus Is The Only Way To God
We could say that Jesus is the Bridge of bridges. He paid it all so we wouldn't have to.
There's only one bridge to God, not many.
61-69, M
We could say that Jesus is the Bridge of bridges. He paid it all so we wouldn't have to.
There's only one bridge to God, not many.
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JPWhoo · 36-40, M
Okay, so if Jesus paid it all, died for our sins, then why are we even talking about “paths” to God? Either Jesus died for our sins and that’s all that was needed for anyone and everyone to get into Heaven, thus there’s nothing for even non-Christians to worry about, or you have to save yourself by the work of “accepting Christ”.
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GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@JPWhoo
Yes, Jesus paid it all for world's sins but not everyone will receive His gift of salvation. As a matter of fact, some will reject His gift of salvation including those religious people and the nonbeliever alike. Without Christ, no one can enter into heaven.
Okay, so if Jesus paid it all, died for our sins, then why are we even talking about “paths” to God? Either Jesus died for our sins and that’s all that was needed for anyone and everyone to get into Heaven, thus there’s nothing for even non-Christians to worry about, or you have to save yourself by the work of “accepting Christ”.
Yes, Jesus paid it all for world's sins but not everyone will receive His gift of salvation. As a matter of fact, some will reject His gift of salvation including those religious people and the nonbeliever alike. Without Christ, no one can enter into heaven.
@JPWhoo Because some don't want anything to do with him. They want to make up their own way of salvation, which won't get hem to heaven. They blame him for everything that is bad in this world, instead of Satan, and some are atheists and then you have agnostics and those who mock God and curse at him. But you are right. Alls it takes is someone's willingness to receive Jesus as their personal Savior and his free gift of salvation. It is a commitment to turn from our old life of sin to a new life in Christ. I did this 50 years ago and I've never been sorry.
@JPWhoo I didn't say that. Never. God's Word says there's no such thing as saving yourself as much as you would like to try. You don't have to work for heaven. Jesus already did that for you.
God's grace is not given because we have done good works. It's because God's grace changed our hearts, that we want to do good works, AFTER we are saved.
It's easy to get the relationship between faith, works, and salvation mixed up. Some think that our works can earn our salvation, though this is plainly contradicted by Ephesians 2.
Good works do not earn salvation, but they do follow salvation. To put it differently, we are not saved BY good works, but FOR good works. Good works are an expression of the fact that we have been saved by grace.
However, if we'll study Ephesians 2:4-7, we'll see that salvation is not simply a ticket to heaven after death. Rather, it has to do with our spirit being brought from death to life, by the love and grace of God, communicated through Jesus Christ. When we are saved into a new life in Christ, we begin to live now, in an altogether different way.
God's grace is not given because we have done good works. It's because God's grace changed our hearts, that we want to do good works, AFTER we are saved.
It's easy to get the relationship between faith, works, and salvation mixed up. Some think that our works can earn our salvation, though this is plainly contradicted by Ephesians 2.
Good works do not earn salvation, but they do follow salvation. To put it differently, we are not saved BY good works, but FOR good works. Good works are an expression of the fact that we have been saved by grace.
However, if we'll study Ephesians 2:4-7, we'll see that salvation is not simply a ticket to heaven after death. Rather, it has to do with our spirit being brought from death to life, by the love and grace of God, communicated through Jesus Christ. When we are saved into a new life in Christ, we begin to live now, in an altogether different way.
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@JPWhoo Yes. You invite Jesus to come into your heart and life as your Savior but that is not considered works. Jesus did all the work on the cross when he paid for our sins on the cross. If you want him to be a part of your life then you invite him and you tell him that you are sorry for your sins and you are asking for forgiveness of your sins and that you want him to be your Savior and he will do it. He turns no one away.
JPWhoo · 36-40, M
@LadyGrace
You invite Jesus to come into your heart and life as your Savior but that is not considered works.
But it is a work. It’s something you have to do to get into Heaven. You could boast about it. Maybe you don’t, but you could. If Jesus really saved you then you shouldn’t have to do anything to get into Heaven, his grace should be enough.
JPWhoo · 36-40, M
@LadyGrace Because you have to do it to get into Heaven, according to your belief apparently, and according to the vast majority of Christians I have ever met; however, it doesn’t make sense to me that an all-loving God would send nor even allow his creations to go to hell.
Have you ever caused anyone the most extreme form of anguish and suffering that will last for all eternity? Do you know anyone who has done? Then how can it even be just, let alone merciful for such to be inflicted on them?
Have you ever caused anyone the most extreme form of anguish and suffering that will last for all eternity? Do you know anyone who has done? Then how can it even be just, let alone merciful for such to be inflicted on them?
@JPWhoo
Because you HAVE to sleep, is it work? Just because something is required doesn't mean it takes work. Jesus said it takes faith and that's not really work. It's acceptance. Jesus did all the work FOR us. You did nothing to earn salvation and that's the whole point. Because of our sinful nature there is nothing we can do to earn our way to heaven.
I'm glad it doesn't make sense to you that in all loving God would send nor even allow his Creations to go to hell because he didn't. Does it make sense to you that Jesus came all the way from Heaven to Earth just to die on the cross a miserable torturous death, just so he could send people to hell? No. He came not to condemn, but to save the world, and he did all he could to prevent us from going to hell. If it were not for his selfless sacrifice on the cross to pay for our sins, we would have all went to hell. But he cared enough to follow out his mission to save us and for that I shall always be grateful. He was willing to go to the point of death in order to save us and I don't know if anyone else on this Earth that did the same. Do you?
Don't forget. God gave us the exact Plan of Salvation so that we wouldn't miss heaven, yet the reason some do is because they don't want to accept his plan a Salvation. God will not force that on anyone. It is the individuals responsibility to either a accept or reject it. By rejecting it, that is their choice they made because they wanted nothing to do with him and they curse him and mock him and if that is their wish then God will honor their decision. But by making that decision to reject God's way to rescue them, they send themselves to hell. It breaks God's heart, but that was their decision, not His.
How about the other side of that? To understand better, we could ask two people who are in love, why they would even want to have children, because after all......the parents, being SO SMART.... know they'll get in trouble and do things they shouldn't anyway, when they're tempted, so best to just not have them, right? See how that makes no sense? God loves us THOUGH we sin. Though He knew down the line, that we would hurt him and actually send him to the cross, he still loved us enough to create us. That's how much he loved us.
The point is, that SIN is not fair. GOD is fair, but sin is not fair. That is the NATURE of sin. Destruction is a consequence of sin. God does not want sin to happen. He did not want Adam and Eve to sin, but they had the ability to know right from wrong and had the right to choose good or evil.
We can be grateful to God. There are always two sides to a story. Was it fair that Jesus suffered the cross, though he had no sin? Adam and Eve lived in a world with no sin in it, in the beginning. That's the world God wanted for them, but they chose to sin against God. We can't blame God, even for something WE choose to do, today. When they sinned, they forfeited ownership of this world, over to Satan. Just because God knew what would happen, does not mean that he caused it. Don't forget that God is perfect and without sin or error. He does not interfere with our will. That's one thing he will not do is make choices for us. That means whether we do good or bad, that is our responsibility, and that's why people want to blame God, instead of themselves for sinning. God was gracious enough to make mankind so that they could have their own will. We should be grateful to God, if anything! Without the love of God towards us, every one of us would have been destined for hell, and lost forever. Why? Because only a holy, pure, sinless sacrifice covers our sins. That's why we could never save ourselves and had to depend on God's son, Jesus, to provide a way for us to have eternal life in heaven.
Without the shedding of blood, there IS no forgiveness of sin. [Hebrews 9:22] That's what Jesus did for US, though we sure didn't deserve Him to. How 'bout we blame Satan, the chief of liars and deceivers of this world, instead of Jesus....who died to save even some whom He knew would be ungrateful.
Because youhave todo it to get into Heaven, according to your belief apparently, and according to the vast majority of Christians I have ever met; however, it doesn’t make sense to me that an all-loving God would send nor even allow his creations to go to hell.
Have you ever caused anyone the most extreme form of anguish and suffering that will last for all eternity? Do you know anyone who has done? Then how can it even bejust, let alonemercifulfor such to be inflicted on them?
Have you ever caused anyone the most extreme form of anguish and suffering that will last for all eternity? Do you know anyone who has done? Then how can it even bejust, let alonemercifulfor such to be inflicted on them?
Because you HAVE to sleep, is it work? Just because something is required doesn't mean it takes work. Jesus said it takes faith and that's not really work. It's acceptance. Jesus did all the work FOR us. You did nothing to earn salvation and that's the whole point. Because of our sinful nature there is nothing we can do to earn our way to heaven.
it doesn’t make sense to me that an all-loving God would send nor even allow his creations to go to hell.
I'm glad it doesn't make sense to you that in all loving God would send nor even allow his Creations to go to hell because he didn't. Does it make sense to you that Jesus came all the way from Heaven to Earth just to die on the cross a miserable torturous death, just so he could send people to hell? No. He came not to condemn, but to save the world, and he did all he could to prevent us from going to hell. If it were not for his selfless sacrifice on the cross to pay for our sins, we would have all went to hell. But he cared enough to follow out his mission to save us and for that I shall always be grateful. He was willing to go to the point of death in order to save us and I don't know if anyone else on this Earth that did the same. Do you?
Don't forget. God gave us the exact Plan of Salvation so that we wouldn't miss heaven, yet the reason some do is because they don't want to accept his plan a Salvation. God will not force that on anyone. It is the individuals responsibility to either a accept or reject it. By rejecting it, that is their choice they made because they wanted nothing to do with him and they curse him and mock him and if that is their wish then God will honor their decision. But by making that decision to reject God's way to rescue them, they send themselves to hell. It breaks God's heart, but that was their decision, not His.
Have you ever caused anyone the most extreme form of anguish and suffering that will last for all eternity? Do you know anyone who has done? Then how can it even bejust, let alonemercifulfor such to be inflicted on them?
[/quote]How about the other side of that? To understand better, we could ask two people who are in love, why they would even want to have children, because after all......the parents, being SO SMART.... know they'll get in trouble and do things they shouldn't anyway, when they're tempted, so best to just not have them, right? See how that makes no sense? God loves us THOUGH we sin. Though He knew down the line, that we would hurt him and actually send him to the cross, he still loved us enough to create us. That's how much he loved us.
The point is, that SIN is not fair. GOD is fair, but sin is not fair. That is the NATURE of sin. Destruction is a consequence of sin. God does not want sin to happen. He did not want Adam and Eve to sin, but they had the ability to know right from wrong and had the right to choose good or evil.
We can be grateful to God. There are always two sides to a story. Was it fair that Jesus suffered the cross, though he had no sin? Adam and Eve lived in a world with no sin in it, in the beginning. That's the world God wanted for them, but they chose to sin against God. We can't blame God, even for something WE choose to do, today. When they sinned, they forfeited ownership of this world, over to Satan. Just because God knew what would happen, does not mean that he caused it. Don't forget that God is perfect and without sin or error. He does not interfere with our will. That's one thing he will not do is make choices for us. That means whether we do good or bad, that is our responsibility, and that's why people want to blame God, instead of themselves for sinning. God was gracious enough to make mankind so that they could have their own will. We should be grateful to God, if anything! Without the love of God towards us, every one of us would have been destined for hell, and lost forever. Why? Because only a holy, pure, sinless sacrifice covers our sins. That's why we could never save ourselves and had to depend on God's son, Jesus, to provide a way for us to have eternal life in heaven.
Without the shedding of blood, there IS no forgiveness of sin. [Hebrews 9:22] That's what Jesus did for US, though we sure didn't deserve Him to. How 'bout we blame Satan, the chief of liars and deceivers of this world, instead of Jesus....who died to save even some whom He knew would be ungrateful.
@JPWhoo Even the Roman soldier at the cross of Jesus, proclaimed that "Surely, this was the son of God!"
In Luke 4:41 (and Mark 3:11), when Jesus casts out demons, they fall down before him, and declare: "You are the Son of God." In John 1:34, John the Baptist bears witness that Jesus is the Son of God and in John 11:27 Martha calls him the Messiah and the Son of God. He told us who He is, and how to be saved, so we wouldn't have to guess:
John 20:31
These things have I written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Who better to know than His own disciples, who spent years with him? These men didn't sacrifice their lives for a lie. They knew who Jesus was, as He told them.
In Luke 4:41 (and Mark 3:11), when Jesus casts out demons, they fall down before him, and declare: "You are the Son of God." In John 1:34, John the Baptist bears witness that Jesus is the Son of God and in John 11:27 Martha calls him the Messiah and the Son of God. He told us who He is, and how to be saved, so we wouldn't have to guess:
John 20:31
These things have I written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Who better to know than His own disciples, who spent years with him? These men didn't sacrifice their lives for a lie. They knew who Jesus was, as He told them.
JPWhoo · 36-40, M
@LadyGrace I didn’t read all of that, but it seems to be the same old stuff they taught me in church from the time I was little that I used to blindly accept but that doesn’t make sense to me anymore; also, you seem to have completely missed the point of the second paragraph of my previous comment. Hell is usually described as unimaginable pain and suffering for the rest of eternity. Nobody would ever knowingly choose that. Do you know of anyone who has ever caused someone else unimaginable pain and suffering for the rest of eternity? Of course you don’t. So how could a just god, let alone a merciful god, allow such a fate to befall anyone? The punishment would be infinitely greater than any and all crimes committed.
@JPWhoo I take the time to read what you've written. You asked me a question and when I answered you indicate you don't have time to read it, nor want to. I bet you can read a whole newspaper in one sitting and not complain. This is so much more important as it has to do with souls. What I wrote you could read in all of probably about 2 minutes. It's much less reading than one page or even a half a page of the newspaper. Our priorities should be in caring and taking care of our souls destiny. But if you don't care enough about the answer to "read all that" and find out why, I guess you'll never know or understand why people go to hell. You're blaming the wrong person. You can say the opposite all day long, but God does not send people to hell. And yes there are plenty of people who want nothing to do with God or his plan of salvation. So yes they will definitely miss heaven. But it's not because God didn't want to save them.
JPWhoo · 36-40, M
@LadyGrace If the only alternative to Heaven is hell, then no, nobody is ever going to choose the most agonizing torment possible for the rest of eternity. Even if God doesn’t “send” people to hell, He should be responsible enough for his own creations to ensure that such a fate never befalls them. Hell doesn’t exist.
@JPWhoo
I took the time and care to write this so I asked you to please read it and then respond. I would appreciate it.
Isn't it amazing absolutely unconceivable that someone would choose to go to hell instead of Heaven, yet I have both read and heard people say they would rather go to hell than be with God.
God did not leave us to go to hell. He made it very clear how to get there . The Bible says: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John)
God did not create us to be robots. That's why he gave us free choice and with that free choice, like it or not, comes responsibility. You can't just go out and rob a bank and blame someone else. There are laws in order to things just like there are on the spiritual side. Without them this world would be so chaotic and crazy.
John 3:16 and 17 tells us exactly God's mind and thoughts. It tells us he's not willing that any perish and in order to make sure that no one would miss heaven, he even paid for our sins on the cross, but unfortunately there are those who want to make up their own rules about salvation. While others want nothing to do with God. Since man makes up his own choices on what he wants to do and is responsible for them, God never makes the choice of where people spend eternity, for them. That is up to us. For example, any man who would force a woman to love him, does not know what love is. When you force a woman to love you that is not love... that is control... and that is not what God wanted for us, either. As much as God loves us and he proved that to us on the cross, he will not make decisions for us.
His will is that none perish, but he will not force His will on us. He gave us our own free will. Jesus showed us exactly how much he loved us, by dying for us so that we could be saved through his Plan of Salvation. If we follow his Plan of Salvation. He could not have given us more. When a person dies for another person they are giving their absolute all. That doesn't mean everyone will accept it, and after all the suffering Jesus went through don't think it doesn't break his heart that some will turn down the only way to heaven. But we can't blame God for what people decide. He did make sure that no one would have to go to hell, as you say, but don't forget the people have their own minds and are stubborn and what to do things their own way. God does not interfere with man's free will.
We are not ignorant. We know that we are responsible for our own actions and decisions. We're not in the dark about that and to blame God for someone who chooses not to choose him or accept his plan of rescue for us from hell, is not fair to Jesus who gave his absolute all for us. That is not taking responsibility for our own choices and actions. Do it your way and you're saying all the robbers, thieves, rapists, and murderers should go to heaven, no matter what. It doesn't work that way. Man is always trying to change God's way and plan of salvation, trying to earn his own way to heaven or just plain ignore him. They can try that but Jesus said it will not work and he came all the way from Heaven to let us know that, so that we would not miss heaven. God's Plan of Salvation was plenty good enough and he didn't need man's help to make it better. It's very simple. If we follow God's Plan of Salvation there's no reason why any of us should miss heaven, as his plan is perfect, just as He is. The only thing God asked us to do is to repent of our sins, and that is not hard to do it all. Jesus did all the hard work and suffering for us on the cross and we should be grateful for that. Hell was never designed for man in the first place. But sin KEEPS us separated from a Holy God, UNTIL we repent of our sins. We can't go dragging our sins into heaven or it couldn't even be called heaven. It is man that gets a little too prideful to admit he has sin in his life that needs to be forgiven so he can have restored fellowship with our Father in Heaven. And yes. Heaven and Hell are both very real on the other side and people will see that who mocked and laughed at God. The Bible gives an in-depth description of both, measurements and all. God wanted to us to know heaven and hell are real. He wanted to make sure we avoid it but that's one thing he's not going to do for you. If people want nothing to do with him then that is strictly their choice because if God had His way, not even one of us would go to hell, but then again that is our choice and he will not make it for us. Free choice demands responsibility. We cannot go blaming God for what we choose.
The real question people should be asking themselves is, "How can I guarantee my eternal destination?"
If the only alternative to Heaven is hell, then no, nobody is ever going to choose the most agonizing torment possible for the rest of eternity. Even if God doesn’t “send” people to hell, He should be responsible enough for his own creations to ensure that such a fate never befalls them. Hell doesn’t exist.
I took the time and care to write this so I asked you to please read it and then respond. I would appreciate it.
Isn't it amazing absolutely unconceivable that someone would choose to go to hell instead of Heaven, yet I have both read and heard people say they would rather go to hell than be with God.
God did not leave us to go to hell. He made it very clear how to get there . The Bible says: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life” (1 John)
God did not create us to be robots. That's why he gave us free choice and with that free choice, like it or not, comes responsibility. You can't just go out and rob a bank and blame someone else. There are laws in order to things just like there are on the spiritual side. Without them this world would be so chaotic and crazy.
John 3:16 and 17 tells us exactly God's mind and thoughts. It tells us he's not willing that any perish and in order to make sure that no one would miss heaven, he even paid for our sins on the cross, but unfortunately there are those who want to make up their own rules about salvation. While others want nothing to do with God. Since man makes up his own choices on what he wants to do and is responsible for them, God never makes the choice of where people spend eternity, for them. That is up to us. For example, any man who would force a woman to love him, does not know what love is. When you force a woman to love you that is not love... that is control... and that is not what God wanted for us, either. As much as God loves us and he proved that to us on the cross, he will not make decisions for us.
His will is that none perish, but he will not force His will on us. He gave us our own free will. Jesus showed us exactly how much he loved us, by dying for us so that we could be saved through his Plan of Salvation. If we follow his Plan of Salvation. He could not have given us more. When a person dies for another person they are giving their absolute all. That doesn't mean everyone will accept it, and after all the suffering Jesus went through don't think it doesn't break his heart that some will turn down the only way to heaven. But we can't blame God for what people decide. He did make sure that no one would have to go to hell, as you say, but don't forget the people have their own minds and are stubborn and what to do things their own way. God does not interfere with man's free will.
We are not ignorant. We know that we are responsible for our own actions and decisions. We're not in the dark about that and to blame God for someone who chooses not to choose him or accept his plan of rescue for us from hell, is not fair to Jesus who gave his absolute all for us. That is not taking responsibility for our own choices and actions. Do it your way and you're saying all the robbers, thieves, rapists, and murderers should go to heaven, no matter what. It doesn't work that way. Man is always trying to change God's way and plan of salvation, trying to earn his own way to heaven or just plain ignore him. They can try that but Jesus said it will not work and he came all the way from Heaven to let us know that, so that we would not miss heaven. God's Plan of Salvation was plenty good enough and he didn't need man's help to make it better. It's very simple. If we follow God's Plan of Salvation there's no reason why any of us should miss heaven, as his plan is perfect, just as He is. The only thing God asked us to do is to repent of our sins, and that is not hard to do it all. Jesus did all the hard work and suffering for us on the cross and we should be grateful for that. Hell was never designed for man in the first place. But sin KEEPS us separated from a Holy God, UNTIL we repent of our sins. We can't go dragging our sins into heaven or it couldn't even be called heaven. It is man that gets a little too prideful to admit he has sin in his life that needs to be forgiven so he can have restored fellowship with our Father in Heaven. And yes. Heaven and Hell are both very real on the other side and people will see that who mocked and laughed at God. The Bible gives an in-depth description of both, measurements and all. God wanted to us to know heaven and hell are real. He wanted to make sure we avoid it but that's one thing he's not going to do for you. If people want nothing to do with him then that is strictly their choice because if God had His way, not even one of us would go to hell, but then again that is our choice and he will not make it for us. Free choice demands responsibility. We cannot go blaming God for what we choose.
The real question people should be asking themselves is, "How can I guarantee my eternal destination?"
@JPWhoo Our culture defines a “loving God” as a completely non-confrontational being who tolerates anything we want to do. But that is not a biblical definition. First John 4:16 says that God is love. That means that He does not possess our flawed concept of love; He is the very definition of love and therefore cannot do anything that is unloving.
JPWhoo · 36-40, M
@LadyGrace Why shouldn’t all the robbers, thieves, murderers, and rapists go to Heaven? Jesus died for them too. All sin is equally bad. You think you’re better than them?
I read all of both of your comments this time. I don’t think you said anything this time that was very different from what you said before, and you definitely didn’t say anything I haven’t heard from lots of other Christians before.
Hell was never designed for man in the first place.
Then what exactly was hell designed for? Why should such a thing as hell even exist? Why would a merciful god create hell? Why is that even a choice on the table?“How can I guarantee my eternal destination?”
Why should people ask that? So there is something you have to do to get to Heaven, but then we’ll just say that doesn’t really count, we didn’t do anything? So then they can do whatever it takes to get to Heaven and then boast about it to all the heathens?I read all of both of your comments this time. I don’t think you said anything this time that was very different from what you said before, and you definitely didn’t say anything I haven’t heard from lots of other Christians before.
@JPWhoo
Why make this personal? Did I say I thought I was better than them? No. Stay focused on the topic. So you think we should have a system with no justice? Criminals should just run the streets and take over with no consequences? Would you feel the same way if someone murdered one of your family members? But you're right about one thing. Sin is Sin and God does not categorize it. All sin separates us from God until we repent and that is why we must repent and ask Jesus to forgive us, which he more than willingly does, which restores our fellowship with our Father in Heaven. We cannot drag our sins into heaven and without them forgiven, one cannot see heaven or dwell there.
Why shouldn’t all the robbers, thieves, murderers, and rapists go to Heaven? Jesus died for them too. All sin is equally bad. You think you’re better than them?
Why make this personal? Did I say I thought I was better than them? No. Stay focused on the topic. So you think we should have a system with no justice? Criminals should just run the streets and take over with no consequences? Would you feel the same way if someone murdered one of your family members? But you're right about one thing. Sin is Sin and God does not categorize it. All sin separates us from God until we repent and that is why we must repent and ask Jesus to forgive us, which he more than willingly does, which restores our fellowship with our Father in Heaven. We cannot drag our sins into heaven and without them forgiven, one cannot see heaven or dwell there.
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