Belief Follows Truth: Why do the Skeptics make futile attempts to make fun of those who believe?

For the vast majority of the past 10,000 years, the vast majority of people believed the Earth was flat. That was very clearly the belief. I don't think it followed truth.

When the church fathers finally got it thru their mitered heads that the Earth was round, they excommunicated Galileo for suggesting the Earth orbited the Sun. I don't think that belief followed truth either.

These are just two examples; there are plenty of cases in history where belief failed to follow truth.

[quote] ... to make fun of those who believe? [/quote]
I do NOT make fun of faith.

But your project is to try and use the lingo of science and logic to "prove" your beliefs. You are NOT presenting faith.

you are presenting flawed logic, lousy assumptions, and a misunderstanding of science as a kind of substitute for faith. It's as if you don't trust faith, so you try to imbue it pseudo scientific underpinnings.

And you are just about the only person here trying to "science-ize" faith. Most people of faith are satisfied with their faith. Your project isn't working; it's misguided, you need to understand that "science-izing" faith is a fruitless task.

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@GodSpeed63 says [quote]You don't understand Truth of God and lies of men, do you, Elwood?[/quote]
Apparently I need help with that. Please explain to me about the "four corners of the Earth" repeatedly mentioned in the Bible. Explain to me how the Earth is a quadrilateral. Show me where I can find these corners.

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For the curious, the above "four corners of the Earth" query is what suddenly silenced OP.

@GodSpeed63 says [quote]You've got the age of the earth wrong by 4000 years. It's obvious you got everything else wrong. Make sure that you know what you're talking about before posting.[/quote] Where is your evidence for that 6000 year claim? How do you refute all the massive amounts of counter evidence?? Did Yahweh HIDE all those dinosaur bones in the rocks???

[sep][sep][center]CLOCKS[/center][sep][sep]
Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.

Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.
[quote] Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.[/quote]The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/


Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???

I eagerly await your evidence for refutation.

If I had to guess, and please take this as the positive criticism it's meant to be: There are plenty of atheists out there so angry at the god they don't believe in they find it their mission to topple the faith of others, this is true. But I can tell you as one steeped in religious traditions and one who's been proselytized to; you guys come at unsuspecting people with both barrels. Ever heard the phrase, "You don't want to give them the show for free?"

I get the propulsion of faith. I understand it's only natural to want to spread what you yourself have found to be a path and answer. It's how faith is spread and I'd suggest that you use the opportunity to share when appropriate. But the guy sitting on the train with you doesn't want a lesson in fundamental Christianity; if he did, he'd have signed up for one.

Maybe if more of you guys used the "inquire within" method, you'd be better received. And speaking purely for myself, if you guys used religion significantly less to measure the worth of others, more people would be attracted and frewer would be alienated. No one should have to pass a test to celebrate God.

[quote] Why do they make fun of us?[/quote]

Because it’s so very easy to disprove and debunk everything you say. You keep repeating the same crap over and over again. It’s still fake .
[quote] it because they think we don’t understand that they’re hurting and they’re lashing out at God? [/quote]
No, it isn’t. It’s because unlike you, we consider willful, deliberate, ignorance too high a price to pay for faith. Truth need not fear facts, and denying facts, will not change truth.
[quote] Skeptics have nothing to support what they believe, and yet, they still make fun of us who believe.[/quote]
Nothing but an over abundance of evidence, which will not go away, simply because you choose not to acknowledge it.
[quote] . They also try to fit the one true God, Yahweh, into their agenda of false gods, including those they’ve made up [/quote]
“the one true god “ everyone has one. None of them have ever been shown to own the title, otherwise there would be only one. Including Yahweh. Jehovah was there before him. So was Asherah, and Anu.
You didn’t read about them did you ?
You don’t even know the history of your god.

@GodSpeed63 says [quote]Proving once again the Word of God to be the Truth. [/quote] [u]Corners and contradictions[/u]

Perhaps you can explain which of these pairs of biblical verses are correct. Each pair has two contradictory statements. Please identify the correct statement in the pair.

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“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

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“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…” — John 1:18

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“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

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“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10

“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

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“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

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BTW, does the Earth have four corners like the Bible says? Is the Earth truly a quadrilateral?? If so, where are these four alleged corners???

Isaiah 11:12 — And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Rev 7:1 — And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Rev 20:8 — And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Ezekiel 7:2 — Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land.

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On a spherical Earth, this can't happen, right??

Matt 4:8 — Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

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Does our spherical Earth have "ends"? If so, where??

Proverbs 30:4 —
Who hath bound the waters in a garment?
Who hath established all the ends of the earth?

Job 37:3 — He directeth it under the whole heaven, And his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

If we're living on a sphere, we're never going to reach any "end of the Earth,"

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The Earth has no corners, no ends, and you can't see all of it from one place. How do you explain all these contradictions in the Bible??

There was a time when I hated God. It was shortly before I became an atheist. That hatred no longer exists, just as I no longer hate Santa for not bringing me what I wanted for Christmas; you can't hate something you don't believe in.

What does irk me, though, is people who claim they know what others think and believe. Especially when those people also deny the physical evidence in front of them because it disagrees with their religious beliefs.

I never knock another person's religion. I just demand that they respect the Constitutional separation of Church and State, that they respect the religious freedom of others, including atheists, and that they acknowledge our public institutions are secular.

Why do blind believers in foolishness make pathetic attempts to appear wise?

[quote] . Will they ever learn the Truth.[/quote]

Not from you, that much is certain.

The anti God trolls I come across tend to be very unhappy individuals whose 'pleasure' in life is being abusive to people who see things differently. They desperately need Jesus in their lives to experience the love, joy and peace that He offers to anyone who turns to Him

Faith is personal. I am glad you have your. Please leave me out.

[quote] 1Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good! Psalm 14:1
[/quote]

Bill Gates is an Atheist, he built a world wide billion dollar company. And he donates millions to charity each year. So, as a “good” Christian, what have you done in comparison ?
Aside from spreading false information, and lies ?

I belittle your silly superstition because I have a visceral hatred for nonsensical beliefs like astrology, ghosts, vampires, werewolves and zombies. The human race has struggled mightily out of the depths of superstition yo the light of reason. Centuries of church sponsored war, repression, tyranny snd organized theft nearly destroyed our culture many times but the Enlightenment culminated in the American Revolution and the first free, truly free society in history.

Now you thumpers want to drag people back to the dim recesses of superstition and it rankles me to see your silly assault on reason.

That’s why.

[b]We’re not just skeptics, we’re Atheist [/b]
Prove we’re not

Why are you unable to disprove the reality that I am an extraterrestrial raven?

Feel free to believe anything you wish about a god..Any god. Just stop insisting I believe the same thing or accept laws made on the basis of your belief and nothing else. For the record, most of the commandments stand up as decent rules for social harmony, in spita of a few people just plan needing killing and some asses just being made to covet..😷

Most atheists I know don't enjoy antagonising christians, I think it an internet trolling thing.

All fingers in a hand ain't alike and similar is in this case.

Show silent compassion and leave that path to walk your own in peace.

In the hope that maybe one believer would put to rest all their doubts and make them see the truth...

I wouldn't call it futile. They want to feel better about themselves without anyone calling them racist, antisemitic, "homophobic", Islamophobic... mission accomplished

[quote]Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.”[/quote]
So your evidence is a passage from your mythbook insulting anyone who does not blindly believe your mythbook.

[quote]Why do they make fun of us? Is it because they think we don’t understand that they’re hurting and they’re lashing out at God?[/quote]
No, dumbass. That would require the rest of us to believe in your god. You said it yourself, we don't. So I can only assume the rest of what you wrote is also nonsense.