Sincere spiritual question, please be gentle and kind 🙏

I am sort of stuck on my path to wherever my path is headed but it's become clear to me that I am in a double bind. Essentially I've considered myself a Christian for awhile and have been attracted to the teachings of Jesus as far back as I can remember but what I am attracted to is the love and forgiveness part.

The idea of loving with all my heart, soul, mind and strength is something I would like to do without being told I should do it. The idea of loving ones neighbor as oneself is a wonderful idea and though difficult I feel as though I can sincerely say I do my best to live by this teaching and it gives me joy to do so. The idea of forgiving others is likewise wonderful to me and it is my desire to forgive everyone who has wronged me in some way and again I feel that I have genuinely done so at least according to what I am able to perceive.

However, even though I am someone who would 9/10 defend Christianity...I have to be honest with myself and say that there is a certain part to me that doesn't seem to fit with the rest and yet it would seem to be the most important part. Jesus said the two most important commandments are to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and like I said I take genuine joy in this and the second to love my neighbor as myself, again I take genuine joy in attempting to authentically be that person.

The issue I have is that if the God who says he loves me more than anyone else in existence would even create such a place as hell it makes me terrified of the God that I truly desire to love with all my heart and in my heart I am not able to fulfill the commandment of loving him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength because there are humans who wouldn't do such a thing as create a hell and surely God's love must be way beyond that of human love or at least that is my line of thinking just knowing myself.

The double bind I see is this, I can't accept that hell is real even though I know for a fact that great suffering is real because I believe that God is the very source of love itself and while I would sooner lose my head than deny the God that I feel I know in my heart, I feel like eternal torture is a bit much to say the least and I can't see anything loving about it at all.

Have you dealt with this issue? What is your advice based on your own perspective?

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reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M

(part one) the way I see it is first there was jews. they had a religion based around a very harsh, sometime borderline psychopath god who caused the great flood because he didn't like how people lived, tortured Job just to prove a point, destroyed Soddom and Gomorah because there was sin there, and if someone had sinned and wanted to be forgiven a blood sacrifice, generally a lamb, was a way of getting back in good terms with god. (part two) then Jesus came along and said that the most important thing was to love one and other. a sort of following of people developed around him. then he died and many versions and intepretations of his message started circulating. some saying he was just a very wise men while others saying he was actually of devine origin. (part 3) then , after a few hundred years of persecuting christians, a roman emperor took an interest in this and wanted to make the roman autority the new oficial center of truth regarding Jesus so he got a bunch of intelectuals together, took all the versions of the story of Jesus that they could find and they chose which version they liked and which they didnt and they created the bible. then a purge started where they persecuted and killed anyone that believed a different version than theirs until all that was left is the bible. in the creation of the bible they kept some of the old jewish stuff and incorporated it to the writings about Jesus. some theologians then suggested that Jesus was like a giant lamb that was sacrificed in order to wipe away all the sins of mankind. then it came to be that in order to be saved one simply had to believe in Jesus and believe that he died for their sins to be saved and the message of love was a bit put aside to be replaced with blind obedience. I think the message of Jesus was meant to replace the old jewish ways and mixing the two maintained the idea of an evil, tyrant god that you must fear instead of the god of Jesus which was synonimous with love. I think none of the books written by men should be taken as absolute truth and used more as a source of inspiration. all religions and great thinkers of the past have stuff to teach us but ultimately I believe in sharpening your mind and becoming your own judge of what is true or not and if someone really wants to know god they should search within and develop their own relationship with the devine, outside of any religion of man which are all flawed.

Mooncalf · 100+, M

@reflectingmonkey So far you've answered most closely to my own position. When I read the words of Jesus teaching how we should love one another, turn the other cheek, forgive not seven times but 77 times etc...my soul sings with joy. The tyrant God stuff and the condemnation of beings simply for being not as holy as God doesn't sit well with me at all and in my opinion conflicts tremendously with Jesus' teaching.

reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M

@Mooncalf to me Jesus is a bit like the personification of love and kindness but this part of him was used as a lure by a power-thirsty bunch of people. maybe one reason why the bible was so successful is because it has all these different angles to it so that vindictive, power-hungry people find their pleasure in it and kind loving people also do. when I hear christians reveling about how non-believers will go to hell THAT to me is toxic christianity. when people think that by being christian they will get more favors from god, that is also toxic to me. even praying for favors is toxic in my perspective because it means that they want god to focus a bit more on them and a bit less on others. the only loving prayer would be to wish food to all that have none, love to all that are lacking, healing to all who suffer, anything specific is selfish. even praying for a sick child is selfish because really there are many sick children so why not pray for all sick children. also, there is this toxic, fake spirituality of people saying to a suffering person " oh poor you, I will send you prayers", man that pisses me off. instead of actually doing something they "send prayers" which is often just a way of looking like a good person, getting the gratification of a good deed WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING !!!!. don't send prayers, go and actually help people, feed people, pay medical bills for poor people, freaking vote for universal healthcare !!! it blows my mind how in the states the same people who call themselves christians are against universal healthcare because they don't want to have to pay the healthcare of less fortunate people. if you like the part of Jesus talking about love its because you already have universal love within you and for this reason you like hearing about it which means follow your heart, love people, forget religion. and I find it very suspicious anyway that a god would want to be worshiped. love, that's all.

Mooncalf · 100+, M

@reflectingmonkey I'm with you man, I don't do the superficial spirituality thing nor do I desire any special treatment from God or to use him as a Santa Claus. My sincere and genuine desire for everyone else regardless of who they are or what they have done is no less than the same desires I have for myself which is unconditional love. I don't personally mind worshiping what I call God because what I call God is worthy of being worshiped (honored, loved and praised) but simultaneously what I call God doesn't demand it. I think I just have to face the facts that I can either betray myself and hope for pity from a God I've judged as a tyrant or choose the Jesus that has touched my heart which at the very least from an ego point of view amounts to choosing hell over a tyrant God.

reflectingmonkey · 51-55, M

@Mooncalf I like your clarity and honesty. i much prefer someone who doubts than someone who is certain. certainty is for fools. I train my mind to accept, and try to be comfortable with, not knowing. " i slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening, I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her still a virgin in the morning" (haha, Aleister Crowley) .