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The Beginning Of Creation

[media=https://youtu.be/-PP12-9IBfg]

This is the beginning of historical events recorded in the Word of God. Skeptics have tried to use science to replace this historical event with what, we have no idea. Their ridicule or mocking in an attempt to discredit the Word of God only says one thing: they can't change the historical events in the Word of God since they can't change history itself. This is what I have observed on here from the start. For the sake of argument, if what they're believing is actually true, why can't they give testimony to it instead of putting all their energy into useless chit chat? They're being Illogical.
TheWildEcho · 56-60, M
Yes, you'll never convince me that the whole thing just ,'happened' by blind chance, the universe is too ordered and beautiful for that!!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@GodSpeed63 So you avoid my question by stalling, and your chosen method of stalling is to call my question a stall tactic.

Remember my question?

I do

It was "What claims have I made?”

Apparently you were just inventing stuff yet again

and again

and again
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 [quote]Remember my question?[/quote]

Let God judge between you and me. When you come out from shivering underneath your bed, let me know.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@GodSpeed63 No. You don’t get to run away to your pathetic little god thing

Grow a pair

[b]What claims have I made?[/b]
JimboSaturn · 51-55, M
Everyone boycott this post. He refused to answer any questions on his previous post and he is the one who feels a need to ridicule
Sharon · F
@newjaninev2 [quote]He has never answered any questions... time waster.[/quote]
He just claims his imaginary friend already has but he's unable to say where or how. He's a very sad case.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@JimboSaturn That's why he started it. God knows what Godspeed's like in real life...
ElRengo · 70-79, M
@GodSpeed63 Still dodging the question, [b]LOL!!![/b]

The Bible repeatedly mentions the "four corners of the Earth." Is it accurate to describe the Earth as having four corners or not? It's a simple yes or no.


[quote]That's a dodge question, ElwoodBlues, you know that. It indicates one thing, that you have nothing.[/quote]
And STILL you refuse to answer about the four corners. As for what I have, I have a TON of evidence about the age of fossils, the age of the Earth, and the age of the universe. Which you ignore. So here ya go again!!!

[sep][sep][center]CLOCKS[/center][sep][sep]
Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 30 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.
[image=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dominik-Marti/publication/278672394/figure/fig1/AS:614063969169413@1523415667274/Photographs-cross-sections-of-the-stalagmites-M1-and-M2-showing-the-locations-of-the-U.png]

Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.
[quote] Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.[/quote]The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/

Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues I wonder if Professor Ferguson genuinely was a professor (i.e. with a PhD, leading research projects and the academic head of a university school)?

He was in it for the money though. At the foot of the page he advertises further material at 25 Cents a copy.

I rather like his map for its elaborate humour; so absurd we might ask, was Ferguson was a Godspeed of his day besotted with his own self-righteousness, or was he in fact satirising such types?

What makes it so amusing is that despite the cod-Renaissance artistry, it is impossible to hide its totally all-American (i.e. USA) origins, a sham further exposed by the heading date (1892?) and the advertisement in the text.

How could a supposedly Biblical view of the world place the 19C USA in the centre and obscure the Middle Eastern birthplace of Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam and assorted other regional religions? They were all founded in the Middle East, by people who had no idea of world geography, well over 1000 years before "Christian" Europeans "discovered", looted, colonised and forced "Christianity" on, the two American continents!

The curious hemi-toroidal shape it claims for the Earth, and those two strange arcs springing from the North Pole, make me think the drawing was inspired by a roulette-wheel. Perhaps it was - but Ferguson knew that selling nonsense like that to the gullible, even at 4 copies to the Dollar, was a safer bet than the gaming-tables!
TheWildEcho · 56-60, M
@ElwoodBlues there are stalectites on bridges less than 100 years old
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@TheWildEcho There are, but they grow in very different conditions from those underground. They derive their calcite from the cement.

The figure ElwoodBlues quotes for calcite formations in caves is actually rapid; and might be from a cave in tropical or sub-tropical conditions, and extending below heavily-vegetated ground with more acidic soil.

Stalactite growth varies among different caves in different regions and climates, but is more often in some-mm per-century or even per-millenium rates. Analysing cave deposits - speleothems and sediments - has long been used to determine the geological life of particular caves, but is now also being used to help understand rates of natural climate changes over the last few hundreds of millennia.

Similarly with the rate of erosion of a cave floor by its stream as it dissolves the limestone - again at some-mm / century or millennium rates.

'''
I've just looked back at that 1893 Ferguson "map", expanding it to the maximum (5x); eliciting no further details but showing just how ridiculous it is! Its continents and seas occupy a hemi-toroidal surface sunken into a huge, square slab of... what, exactly? - looked over by Mediaeval-fantasy angels many thousands of miles tall, on the structure's flat, totally featureless, [i]terra incognito[/i] spandrels. The magnification suggested the two bright objects on their polar antennae are meant to represent the Sun and Moon - they remind me of those "Deely Bopper" head-bands that were a fad several decades ago.

Orlando Ferguson (1846 - 1911) was selling mere fantasy here and in many pamphlets expounding his ideas. Although he had never studied science or theology in any professional sense, and his "Professor" title was a downright lie, we can at least admire his purely artistic imagination and skill. So who was he?

Wikipedia tells us a little about him, and his Square-Earth model he had derived from Biblical literalism :

A resident of Hot Springs, Dakota, he was a grocery shop-keeper, later a hotelier who went on to build a spa around the town's thermal springs. That last venture's customers called him "Doctor", but he was not a doctor, and had never studied medicine - nor much else.

The "Deely Boppers" on his USA-centric, Holy Lands-hiding, cod-17C drawing are indeed meant to be the Sun and Moon. The former is merely 30-miles diameter and 3000 miles distant; so guessed this quack who also denied gravity. Perhaps dropped apples never met the floor in his grocery shop.

The copy above shows a few words to the left of the NW angel. A fuller image shows it is the caption to the author's portrait. Ferguson would have been largely lost to history's basement store of engaging but insignificant eccentrics, had it not been for the Library of Congress reporting its acceptance of a copy of his map, in 2011. There is also a copy in a local museum.

Ferguson's map is amusing, but no more than that. Besides, his Earth is not even flat!
Why do people keep saying, "We have no idea?" THAT'S what I'd like to know. God didn't leave us to guess on this. This is why He gave us the Bible. But for them to admit [i]that[/i], they'd have to admit God is real. A 12 yr old child has enough intelligence to recognize God as Creator, just by looking at his/her surroundings, but for adults, that's a problem?

If skeptics can persuade themselves that there is no God, then they won't have to feel responsible for their actions. That's why they won't accept God or His Word. It's okay for them to present their random news articles and what have you, but let us try to confirm God by His Word and prophecy etc, and oh, "that's not [i]allowable[/i]." Double-minded and double-standards.

[b][c=BF0000][center]"A double-minded man is unstable in [b]all[/b] his ways." James 1:8[/center][/c][/b]
karysma · 31-35, F
IIt is what it is. I'd hate for everyone to realize this reality after the rapture. I don't want anybody to be left to witness the 7 seals being opened 😓
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karysma · 31-35, F
@Ferise1 For those walking in the flesh it's nonessential but not for those led by the Spirit.
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Allelse · 36-40, M
Did you read this in Harry Potter?
I'll just post again what the asker refuses to engage with. All his anti-evolution claims are refuted in the following sequence of videos

Start here for definitions & terminology:
[media=https://youtu.be/GcjgWov7mTM]

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/hs-biology/x4c673362230887ef:evolution-and-natural-selection/x4c673362230887ef:evidence-of-common-ancestry/v/evidence-for-evolution

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/hs-biology/x4c673362230887ef:evolution-and-natural-selection/x4c673362230887ef:evidence-of-common-ancestry/v/understanding-and-building-phylogenetic-trees-or-cladograms

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/hs-biology/x4c673362230887ef:evolution-and-natural-selection/x4c673362230887ef:natural-selection/e/understand-natural-selection

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/hs-biology/x4c673362230887ef:evolution-and-natural-selection/x4c673362230887ef:natural-selection/v/natural-selection-and-the-owl-butterfly

This stand-alone video is also valuable
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/crash-course-bio-ecology/crash-course-biology-science/v/crash-course-biology-119

If you can't refute the scientists in the videos above, you're wasting time on this thread. Your opinions hold no water.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues [quote]As I've have pointed out, "God's Spirit" seems to be telling many other folks something very very different.[/quote]

At different times and in different ways, the Spirit of Truth reveals all truth to those who love God.

[quote]I never said that; please don't put words in my mouth.[/quote]

What words did I put in your mouth?
@GodSpeed63 Still ducking the question, [b]LOL!!![/b]

The Bible repeatedly mentions the "four corners of the Earth." Is it accurate to describe the Earth as having four corners or not? It's a simple yes or no.

GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues [quote]The Bible repeatedly mentions the "four corners of the Earth.[/quote]

You're the one dodging the issue, ElwoodBlues. If you want to talk about this, then put up your own thread on it.
Sharky86 · 36-40, M
Omg so many creationists trolls recently that I don't even understand who's "serious" and who's just having fun... 🤪
DocSavage · M
Is not, we got our info straight from the snake. The video is pure bullshit
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