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Proof of God (Part 1)



Hello, everyone. I was thinking about making this series of posts about the proof of God's existence through logical reasoning. By starting this series, my goal, rather than trying to prove to Atheists that God exists, is to make some kind of challenge for myself. To make it easier, I have decided to post my ideas, step by step, in separate parts. I am trying to see how my ideas can be challenged, and then I will be off looking for answers to your questions and challenges, so that I can expand my knowledge about this. This is also a chance for you, to share your opinions, and see how you can debunk what I'm saying. So, please, just talk about what is being discussed in each separate part rather than wandering off to topics which will be discussed in the next parts. So, let's get started!!

I'm gonna start by talking about how things exist.

1.We know that anything that has come to existence, has a reason. Read it again!! "Anything that has come to existence", not "everything". That means anything that didn't exist at some point, and later came into existence. This has a reason!! And I guess that's obvious.

- We can never say "everything" has a reason, because then we have to answer the question "How do we know that everything has a reason? How can we even be sure that there isn't something that hasn't come to existence, on the contrary, it has existed since eternity and will exist forever, and coming to existence is totally meaningless when we talk about it".


2. Anything that has come to existence has a reason or cause, and this gives us three options.

A) It came into existence from nothing.

B) It is its own reason, meaning it has created itself.

C) There's some external cause that brought it into existence.

We are sure that out of the three options above, only C makes sense.

A can not be true. "Nothing" is nothing. There isn't anything so that something can come out of it. If we say something has come into existence from nothing, it already contradicts the concept of "nothingness", it's like saying "there's nothing, but at the same time, there's something so that another thing can come out of it into existence", which is obviously contradictory.

B can not be true. If we say something has created itself, then it means it has existed before itself so that it can bring itself into existence. This is nonsense!! You find yourself caught into a circular reasoning procedure!!

The only option that remains, is C. I think there's no way that we can debunk this!! If there's any, go on, I'm all ears!!


Conclusion: Anything that has come to existence, has a reason or cause.

Waiting for your questions and challenges related to what was discussed in this part!!
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
[quote]it has existed since eternity[/quote]

Why not simply say that [i]anything[/i] we are trying to explain has existed since eternity?

That certainly has the advantage of simplicity
Budwick · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 [quote]That certainly has the advantage of simplicity[/quote]

Even though it's not accurate.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick Why not?

How can we know?

The universe has always existed... therefore no need to postulate gods.

There, see how easy that was?
Budwick · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 THAT is your science?
Throw some crap out, see if it sticks?

Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick No, the Big Bang was the beginning of the inflation-expansion of the universe.

It’s perfectly valid to propose that the universe had always existed before that event... especially as it is incoherent to talk about ‘before’ an event that allowed spacetime to exist.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 You are debating Einstein now?
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity... and I’m not sure about the universe
[i](Albert Einstein)[/i]
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick Is there a problem with questioning Einstein? I hope not, because it happens across physics every day (there are no authorities in science).

But I’m not actually objecting to Relativity... I spend as much time as possible studying it, and rather like its elegance.

As I mentioned, spacetime began with the Big Bang... spacetime requires relativity, and relativity isn’t found in a singularity (by definition)
Budwick · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 Janine, I'm sure you feel qualified to question everyone - even God.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick If your god cannot be questioned, then it’s simply an autocratic tyrant. What a strange thing to postulate.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 I don't question God.
I question YOU!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Budwick and I respond accordingly.

For example:

The universe has always existed... therefore no need to postulate gods.

The Big Bang was the beginning of the inflation-expansion of the universe... not the beginning of the universe [i]per se[/i]

It’s perfectly valid to propose that the universe had always existed before that event... especially as it is incoherent to talk about ‘before’ an event that allowed spacetime to exist.

Any further questions?