Random
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Proof of God (Part 1)



Hello, everyone. I was thinking about making this series of posts about the proof of God's existence through logical reasoning. By starting this series, my goal, rather than trying to prove to Atheists that God exists, is to make some kind of challenge for myself. To make it easier, I have decided to post my ideas, step by step, in separate parts. I am trying to see how my ideas can be challenged, and then I will be off looking for answers to your questions and challenges, so that I can expand my knowledge about this. This is also a chance for you, to share your opinions, and see how you can debunk what I'm saying. So, please, just talk about what is being discussed in each separate part rather than wandering off to topics which will be discussed in the next parts. So, let's get started!!

I'm gonna start by talking about how things exist.

1.We know that anything that has come to existence, has a reason. Read it again!! "Anything that has come to existence", not "everything". That means anything that didn't exist at some point, and later came into existence. This has a reason!! And I guess that's obvious.

- We can never say "everything" has a reason, because then we have to answer the question "How do we know that everything has a reason? How can we even be sure that there isn't something that hasn't come to existence, on the contrary, it has existed since eternity and will exist forever, and coming to existence is totally meaningless when we talk about it".


2. Anything that has come to existence has a reason or cause, and this gives us three options.

A) It came into existence from nothing.

B) It is its own reason, meaning it has created itself.

C) There's some external cause that brought it into existence.

We are sure that out of the three options above, only C makes sense.

A can not be true. "Nothing" is nothing. There isn't anything so that something can come out of it. If we say something has come into existence from nothing, it already contradicts the concept of "nothingness", it's like saying "there's nothing, but at the same time, there's something so that another thing can come out of it into existence", which is obviously contradictory.

B can not be true. If we say something has created itself, then it means it has existed before itself so that it can bring itself into existence. This is nonsense!! You find yourself caught into a circular reasoning procedure!!

The only option that remains, is C. I think there's no way that we can debunk this!! If there's any, go on, I'm all ears!!


Conclusion: Anything that has come to existence, has a reason or cause.

Waiting for your questions and challenges related to what was discussed in this part!!
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Quantum mechanics, the most precise and accurate physical theory yet, is based on the principle of fundamental randomness; i.e. effects without causes. This leads to super weird effects like quantum tunneling and entanglement. So it seems that events and effects without reason or cause are extremely common. These random effects are, of course, subject to conservation rules when averaged over space and time.

There have been attempts at alternative theories based on the notion that the apparent fundamental randomness is masking some hidden causes. In fact, one of the greatest proponents of such hidden variable theories was Albert Einstein. Unfortunately, nobody, not even Einstein, was able to make a workable predictive physical theory based on hidden variables.

There is one cool result called Bell's Theorem that says there will always exist an experimental way (may not be easy) to test or verify the difference between a hidden variable theory and fundamental randomness. However, there's a dearth of testable hidden variable theories, and all the experimental evidence so far supports fundamental randomness.

tl;dr - effects without causes very strongly appear to be the rule not the exception in our universe.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues So who or what set the quantum mechanics. Even Fred Hoyle who lets be honest here is one heck of a lot smarter than you admitted that it looked like Someone had tampered with the numbers in order for life to exist. Fred was never a Christian or even a theist but he did understand that the universe had the looks of being planned and not just and accident.
@hippyjoe1955 If you wanna rename the Big Bang and call it "god" be my guest. But there's no point praying to the Big Bang, and it doesn't give you rules of morality or grant you an afterlife.

BTW, Richard Feynman, who lets be honest here is one heck of a lot smarter than you or Fred Hoyle, doesn't agree. That's the problem with an appeal to authority fallacy, isn't it? Always a better authority. Hoyle was citing the Anthropic Principle which suggests that the unverse somehow "needs" life. If so, it sure doesn't need much, LOL!!!
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues What caused the Big Bang? There is no reason for it to have happened. Do try to use your head for more than some place to hang your ears.
@hippyjoe1955 Try rereading my original post. It's all about effects without causes, LOL!!! Do try to use your head for more than some place to hang your ears.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@ElwoodBlues You don't have sufficient causation moron. You do know what that is don't you? The big bang happened. What caused it? It wasn't just an accident. There is no reason in nature for it to have occured.
Human1000 · M
@ElwoodBlues Why would a smart social chimp, honed by millions of years of evolution to survive and reproduce on Earth, necessarily be able understand a quantum universe? We can try, but surely there is a limit. AI might be able to at some point..
@hippyjoe1955 [quote]The big bang happened. What caused it? [/quote]
I already answered that!! Here's what I wrote; maybe you should actually read it this time, LOL!!!
[sep]
If you wanna rename the Big Bang and call it "god" be my guest. But there's no point praying to the Big Bang, and it doesn't give you rules of morality or grant you an afterlife.
[sep]

[quote] It wasn't just an accident. [/quote]
And you know this how??

[quote]There is no reason in nature for it to have occured.[/quote]
And you know this how??