God Created [Spirituality & Religion]

@Pikachu "All are agreed that these mutant chickens developed their teeth because they carry the genetic information for ‘tooth-making’ originally present in their ancestors, but which later became ‘switched off’.

Evolutionists interpret these observations as consistent with their belief that reptiles evolved into birds.  Creationists interpret it as consistent with their belief that the ancestral created kind from which the chicken is descended contained the information to generate teeth.  To support this, we point to similar types of teeth in extinct birds. 

This discovery has enabled a fascinating glimpse of the greater genetic potential of the original Genesis kinds. "

@NewBecky

Ok so we've abandoned the "same building blocks" argument. That's a good start.

So on the one hand we've got evidence which appears to indicate common descent and on the other we've got an assertion that they must have just had that information to begin with. Here's the problem though. It's not just these birds contain a gene which allows for teeth, it is the SAME gene present in reptiles. But since reptiles don't have avian genes, we must necessarily reject the idea that they were just made from the same stuff.

Ok, let's see how many examples of apparent common descent it takes before it becomes impractical to make these just so stories.

Let's talk about retroviruses.

Retroviruses are viruses that reproduce by inserting their genetic information into host cells which then replicate.
When these viruses infect reproductive cells, their genetic information is passed on to the progeny of the host. This results in the presence of retroviral rna in our human genetic code. Junk dna from a foreign organism.
The interesting thing is that we’ve been able to map the genome of other animals. For instance, the chimpanzee. When we look at the chimp’s dna we find, to an astonishing degree, the same retroviral genetics in the same places that we find them in human dna.

Here's the thing though, when a virus infects an organism, it's genetic material is inserted randomly into the host genome. If these different species has been infect discretely then these viral genetics would be in different places,...but they're not. They're in the same places.
So again, that means that humans and chimps shared an ancestor which was infected by the virus and then passed this altered code on.

@Pikachu No... "we" are not abandoning the fact that God used genes as building blocks for Creation.

The rejection is that chickens received genes from a reptile with teeth... No, chickens must have received teeth from an ancestral BIRD which had teeth.

Finding similarities between organisms is merely finding the same building blocks.

@NewBecky

I think you missed an important bit of information in my last post.
It's not just that birds possess a gene which can produce teeth, it IS the same gene possess by reptiles. Like it's the same chromosome.
And since this situation is not reversed, since there are no bird chromosomes in the reptile genome it becomes impossible to say that these similarities are due to shared materials.
Otherwise reptiles would also share bird genes.

Now do please address the specifics of the retrovirus example.

The genetic material is inserted in specific places and importantly, these insertions have occurred after the fact. So even if you wanted to assert that god created the animals, the ERVs still entered the genome at a later date meaning that the animals which share these segments share an ancestor.

@Pikachu "since there are no bird chromosomes in the reptile genome" - You are making assumptions... Let me simplify it for you...

It is entirely possible to use cement and wood to build 1 structure while only using cement in another. Do not pretend your propaganda has any merit in scientific process. It does not.

@NewBecky

Ok so birds have reptiles= DNA which is consistent with evolution but inconsistent with genesis wherein birds were created before reptiles.
Like i said, let's see how many examples of apparent common descent it takes before it becomes impractical to make these just so stories.

Now i do insist that you specifically address the issues i raised with ERVs in my last post:

The genetic material is inserted in specific places and importantly, these insertions have occurred after the fact. So even if you wanted to assert that god created the animals, the ERVs still entered the genome at a later date meaning that the animals which share these segments share an ancestor.

And let's throw in human chromosome 2.
Another example of an ancestral relationship between humans and other apes.

Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes while the other great apes to which we are related have 24 pairs of chromosomes. On the face of it, this presents a problem for the theory of evolution and common decent. Why don’t the apes with whom we ostensibly share an ancestor have the same number of chromosomes as humans? According to evolution, all the great apes evolved from a common ancestor. Since an organism could not survive the complete deletion of a chromosome pair, evolution predicts that this missing pair must be extant somewhere in the gene code. If it’s not then evolution is dead in the water.
But it is and we find it at human chromosome number 2. There we find the missing chromosome pair sandwiched between two other chromosomes with telomeres (the caps usually found on the outside of a chromosome) in the middle. A fused pair of chromosomes. So that missing chromosome pair wasn’t missing, it had just been fused with another pair of ape chromosomes.


Would you then necessarily posit the just so explanation that god used a pair of fused ape chromosomes to make humans?
How many just so stories do you need vs the single unifying explanation of common descent?

@Pikachu I am not going to bother with your comment because, in the very beginning of your comment you made a false statement. If you make a false statement in the beginning then what follows it doesn't matter,

"Ok so birds have reptiles= DNA" - No... False

Birds have DNA. Reptiles have DNA. But Birds do not have Reptile DNA. Birds and Reptiles were created at the same time. Some of their DNA was similar and some was not. You make much of nothing.

@NewBecky


Geneticists seem to think so🤷🏻


I beg your pardon but that strikes me as a dishonest deflection.
Even if you disagree with my initial statement, the argument regarding ERV's is completely unrelated. And same again with human chromosome 2.

If you find yourself unprepared to offer a rebuttal then simply say so.
Please don't make excuses, it just sounds dishonest.

Now please.
Your specific response...

@Pikachu You must be capable of processing this concept... surely you must...

God used DNA in Birds that He did not use in reptiles and He used DNA in birds that He also used in reptiles... Actually, they both share similar genetic code... both have genetic codes for eyes... etc, You make much of nothing. Honestly, you do.

@NewBecky

You must be capable of reading and understanding the evidence i shared regarding ERVs and human chromosome 2.

What is your response to it?
Please don't be so disrespectful as to continue pretending i have not asked you these question.

Now please.
Your specific response...

@Pikachu Regarding your question... I have been reading a bit...

https://creation.com/chromosome-2-fusion-1

@Pikachu And

http://www.creationliberty.com/articles/erv.php

@Pikachu You will probably discount the evidence, but I am yet reading it.

@NewBecky

Here's some more reading on chromosome 2 then

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC52649/

It's a study, not an article.

As for the article on ERVs well it says nothing more than god did this for reasons...which is what the answer always is. Various non-specific reasons.
While evolution consistently explains it by common descent.
Even the article acknowledges that these markers are established by infection. That is to say, even in this article there is no coherent explanation for why this foreign genetic material would be included in a special creation scenario, much less why it would be included at the same points in apparently closely related species.

Why would god make different animals with the appearance of having been infected sometime over their history by a virus which is then passed on in their genetic code? Mysterious ways.
Or
Why would these sites line up so perfectly between certain species? Same answer as always: common descent.

@Pikachu
So many assumptions! So which ancestry is that if we have common descent? Surely you know that none of this DNA research have ever been invalid at all right! Because we all know that only creationists research is invalid! The evolutionists surely would never corrupt research studies, that would never happen! So tell us which ancestor did we have in common and exactly what happened?

@Carazaa

I don't know which ancestor it was. We'll probably never know. How could we?

But you may find the same fingerprints at several crime scenes without knowing to whom those fingerprints belong.
Or you can assert that the fingerprints were planted there for reasons.
I know which one i'd find a more logical conclusion🤷🏻