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Do we need God for Morality? [Spirituality & Religion]

Obviously the secular answer is a resounding NO.
But if you're a theist who says "yes", i want to hear your reasoning.

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I am a scientific minded person, I do not personally believe in any deities. With that being said I do believe the concept of god is indeed needed to instill morality in some people. All religions have a punishment/reward system that gives people a reason to be good (going to heaven for Christians) and some form of eternal punishment (going to hell for Christians). This is meant to incentivize moral behavior based upon a set of rules established by the religion. Without this fear I believe that many people would be more likely to become violent, aggressive psychotics, much like what we are seeing in the world today. It seems "biblical" at times to see the violence and hatred permeating society these days and to some degree it actually is biblical, as our society steps away from religion many who are perhaps on the edge already lose that fear of "going to hell" because they lose their belief in its existence and thus are more likely to act upon their more base desires, whether that be sexual perversion or mass murder. So to make a long story short...yes in some people a belief in some sort of "god" is necessary for morality.

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Speedyman · 70-79, M

Being scientifically minded should be a spur towards a belief in a creative mind behind this rational universe. Else you believe that the universe you can measure rationally is made by irrational forces and your own scientific beliefs are based on irrationality. Believe in God is not a matter of science but of a matter of philosophy@istillhaveanameitsrick

TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover · M

@Speedyman
No, not philosophy, it's a matter of faith, individuals that cannot fathom the term faith are at a loss as then the big box trucks have to make do their jobs more honestly or deliberately! See, my Yes means YES and No means NO

Pikachu

@istillhaveanameitsrick

This is a good point and well made.
But if you'll allow me to be a little pedantic for a moment, i think you've made a good argument for how religion might encourage people to behave morally.
However, what i'm really asking here is if people need a god as a [i]source[/i] of morality in order to have a moral code.

TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover · M

@Pikachu
That's a no, the Native Americans were very innocent or moral, but just as every other ethnicity there are bad apples!

Speedyman · 70-79, M

They were not actually if you really look at the history. They were very badly treated but they were not innocent and moral. You have been watching too much of dances with Wolves@TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Pikachu I think @istillhaveanameitsrick was making the point that for some people, God is needed as a source of morality. It would be interesting to tease out the reason, though.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

The reason is of course that we are made in God’s image. This is why atheists are so aggressive in their denial of God because they are denying something which is natural@Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman Not denial. God, as I have said on numerous occasions, may well exist, There is just not enough evidence to convince me that He does. You are obviously convinced, that's fine, that's your faith. But not everyone shares it.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

The evidence is all around you as I said. If you could look around you and see the wonder and design of creation and still deny there is a creative hand then you are blind. Like when I look at this computer program and say there is not enough evidence to suggest there is a programmer to convince me. Seems totally illogical to me @Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman Again, this is your claim. There are, at present, more than one explanation for what is observable, if you include creation. Until all but one of the contenders are eliminated, I will continue to not accept the "truth" of any one position. Yes, that includes scientific theories as well. Even evolution may one day be overturned.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

Good so until all contenders for my computer program are eliminated I shall continue to believe that it just wrote itself. And because I have never seen the make of my car I will continue to believe it made itself@Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman You do love those little diversions don't you. Does this, what you term, computer program replicate itself? Do we have any evidence of such computer programs coming into existence spontaneously? Isn't it common knowledge, nay, necessary knowledge that cars are designed and manufactured? Both your points are irrelevant to the argument, because they are both known to be manufactured items. I don't know exclusively that the universe was created by God, the result of some quantum event or created by invisible orange unicorns, so until the results are in, I'm keeping an open mind.

And I'll ask you again, how can you prove that it was your version of God that did the creating that you claim is obvious? References of a purely biblical form are not proof unless you can provide supporting evidence.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

You are absolutely limited in your understanding as you go round in circles. You believe intelligence was created by non-intelligence and that personality was created by impersonal forces and that life was created by non-living things. Such to me is not common sense@Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman When did I say that I believed that? I said that I don't know how it came about. Please don't presume to know what others may or may not believe.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

You believe that as an atheist by definition @Bushranger

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@Speedyman By definition, an Atheist is someone who does not believe in God or Gods. But, again, please refrain from assuming that you know what others do or don't believe or think. You are just demonstrating your arrogance.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

As far as arrogance is concerned the atheist has it every time@Bushranger

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@Speedyman There is evidence for people making your car and evidence for someone programming your computer. There is no evidence for a creator God. No need for one either.

Speedyman · 70-79, M

Oh so no evidence in the design you see around you? You guys make me laugh my head off with your double standards and double thinking@Entwistle

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@Speedyman I just told you there is evidence for a builder of my guitars and evidence of builders of your car etc. Yet there's no evidence of a God anywhere in this magnificent universe.

TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover · M

@Entwistle
Y'all, could have evidence, witnesses and old written articles and you'll still argue till you are blue in the face.

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover possibly.

TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover · M

@Entwistle
You have all those things and you still debate against Jesus the CHRIST!

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@TheeOriginalAmazingsEXLover Christ is a fictional character. No such person ever really existed.

Pikachu

@Entwistle

Isn't it the general consensus that supernatural claims aside, jesus was indeed a real person?

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