Can some Christian help explain this apparent example of god immediately contradicting himself? [Spirituality & Religion]

@DudeistPriest

[quote]. Saddling his donkey first thing and going right away indicated to God that he was too eager.[/quote]

No, saddling his donkey first thing and going right away indicates that he was eager to carry out god's order to go.

[quote]The real test was whether Balaam would give authority to the princes before God[/quote]

And he didn't. He says right from the outset that he will only say what god tells him, that he will only do what god allows him to do.

[quote] he did not wait for God to instruct him to go, he jumped the gun and went as per the princes' instruction instead[/quote]

I think you're misremembering that story:

"The elders of Moab and Midian departed with the fees for divination in hand. They came to Balaam and relayed to him the words of Balak.

8“Spend the night here,” Balaam replied, “and [c=#BF0000]I will give you the answer that the LORD speaks to me[/c].” So the princes of Moab stayed with Balaam.

9Then God came to Balaam and asked, “Who are these men with you?”

10And Balaam said to God, “Balak son of Zippor, king of Moab, sent me this message: 11‘Behold, a people has come out of Egypt, and they cover the face of the land. Now come and put a curse on them for me. Perhaps I may be able to fight against them and drive them away.’”

12But God said to Balaam, “[c=#BF0000]Do not go with them.[/c] You are not to curse this people, for they are blessed.”

13So Balaam got up the next morning and said to Balak’s princes, [c=#BF0000]“Go back to your homeland, because the LORD has refused to let me go with you[/c].”"

They implore Balaam further and he asks god again, this time god instructs him to go and THEN he gets up, saddles his donkey and heads out.

@Pikachu [quote]No, saddling his donkey first thing and going right away indicates that he was eager to carry out god's order to go.[/quote]

He shouldn't have saddled it at all. He should've waited first for God to hail him; then proceeded to saddle up. That's what God was waiting for, to see what he would do first. Wait for Him or jump through a princely hoop. You're proceeding from here forward and going off on a tangent. It's minutia I know and a bit of a fine line, but that's what I interpret from it. God's constantly portrayed as being jealous.

Either way, if there's a lesson here it's clearly regarding who Balaam's allegiance is to - God or the worldly princes. I could be wrong but I wouldn't take it so seriously. There there pikachu, settle down now.

@DudeistPriest

[quote] He should've waited first for God to hail him[/quote]

Again, i think you may be misremembering this story:

"That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, [c=#BF0000]get up and go with them[/c], but you must only do what I tell you.” 21So Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey, and went with the princes of Moab."

God explicitly told Balaam to go and it was only then that he went.
So as you can see, Balaam clearly waits on god before acting, follows god's order and refuses point blank to do or say anything which is not god's will.

I don't know what to tell you. Don't take my word for it though. Give that section of numbers a re-read.
Start at Numbers 22:1

@Pikachu Ok man, that's your interpretation. There are as many interpretations as there are human beings who read scripture. Just trying to make commentary and share with you as a matter of discussion, nothing written in stone and certainly not to make argumentation with you.

Also by the way the Bible, Koran etc... are not books of facts. Literature yes, but not fact.

@DudeistPriest

And thank you for sharing. But unless you can base your interpretation on the actual scripture as i have tried to do, it does little to answer my question.

Just give the passages a read and get back to me.

@Pikachu Dude, I already did give them a read. I respected your question and spent about an hour's review in the Bible, digested it's meaning to me and gave you my interpretation upon scripture. It's not like yours and yours is not like mine, accept it. That was disrespectful.

@DudeistPriest

Your interpretation does not appear to be based on any scripture. You made claims which appear to be [i]directly[/i] contradicted by various passages which lead me to assume you were not very familiar with the subject matter.

Sorry to cause offense.

@Pikachu Numbers 22:21-22.

@DudeistPriest

Yes?

@Pikachu Did you look it up?

@DudeistPriest

lol yeah dude. In fact i just quoted part of that to you a second ago.

Why don't you quote for me the line you feel best supports the assertion "he did not wait for God to instruct him to go, he jumped the gun and went as per the princes' instruction instead" which would justifiably kindle god's anger against him.

As opposed to what the scripture appears to say which is god telling balaam to go and the very next passage saying god's anger was kindled against him.

@Pikachu Ok, so we're in agreement that we looked at the [i]same thing.[/i]

@DudeistPriest

Yup.
And now i'm just curious to see which line or lines [i]specifically [/i]you feel best support your claim: [quote]"he did not wait for God to instruct him to go, he jumped the gun and went as per the princes' instruction instead"[/quote]

@Pikachu So you also understand that (hang in there with me) that two people can read the [i]same thing [/i]and come to two different interpretations? People are allowed to do that.

@DudeistPriest

Yes, i understand.

So to that end, please share with me the [i]specific[/i] passage which you feel supports the interpretation [quote]"he did not wait for God to instruct him to go, he jumped the gun and went as per the princes' instruction instead"[/quote].

@Pikachu Ok, so we do understand.

Regarding your query, I [i]did [/i]share that with you at length in my original reply. I wrote that quote there as a summary in case you did not understand my original reply:

[quote][i]When Balaam "got up in the morning" he should've waited for God's instruction first and not been so eager to go with the princes. Saddling his donkey first thing and going right away indicated to God that he was too eager. The real test was whether Balaam would give authority to the princes before God. A bit of splitting hairs here but the distinction is there.[/i] [/quote]

To recap the fine point again, the guy wakes up; he should've waited right there for God to instruct him (a sign or something) giving him permission before the princes said anything. That's it. That's all.

Did that help in clarifying things? It's a fine point but that's all that's in the verse to go by.

@DudeistPriest


Sorry, it sounded to me as if you were not even aware that god had told him to go. So let's move forward with your understanding that god did indeed tell Balaam to go.
Do you think after god having told him to go, Balaam should have [i]waited[/i] for god to tell him a [i]second [/i]time?
Yes or no?

You believe it is appropriate to make god tell you to do something twice?
Yes or no.

Can you explain your answers for me?

@Pikachu I already did. You're not listening. You're making things too complicated and overanalyzing. It's not that difficult to understand.

@DudeistPriest

Sorry, i'm just trying to be as clear as possible. We've established that we're talking about the same passages, now i'm trying to be clear about the [i]basis[/i] for you interpretation.

To that end, please answer my questions:

Do you think after god having told him to go, Balaam should have waited for god to tell him a [i]second[/i] time?
Yes or no?

You believe it is appropriate to make god tell you to do something [i]twice[/i]?
Yes or no.

Of course, if you don't feel like carrying on this conversation then there is no onus on you to continue.

@Pikachu What do [i]you [/i]think? I told you what I think. After all this discussion what are [i]your [/i]thoughts?

@DudeistPriest

My thoughts are that i'm interested in your response to two very simple yes or no questions, the answers to which will either support or undermine your earlier claim.

@Pikachu You're being disingenuous. C'mon now, you did review the material, didn't you? Or are you just mulling around the point? What do you think of the verse? There must be [i]something [/i]spinning around up there. Discussion is a two-way street.

@DudeistPriest

[quote]You're being disingenuous.[/quote]

lol not trying get tit for tat here, but i have been thinking the same thing of you given your hesitance to answer my questions. I wasn't going to say it though.

[quote]What do you think of the verse? [/quote]

I'm sorry if i have not made my thoughts clear with the question and discussion.
I think that this story doesn't make sense. I think that the only way to make sense of it is to assume that we are missing parts of the story because based on the information we have, Balaam is obedient to a fault. Not even a palace full of riches would cause him to disobey the lord.

So please, show me that you too are being honest and answer my questions.
The answers will either support or undermine your interpretation.

Do you think after god having told him to go, Balaam should have waited for god to tell him a [i]second[/i] time?
Yes or no?

You believe it is appropriate to make god tell you to do something [i]twice[/i]?
Yes or no.

@Pikachu Doesn't sound like you have an opinion then. Sounds more like instead of actually giving a good review first, did you pick and chew favorite parts and ignore the rest? Because you certainly haven't shared an interpretation yourself.

Are you a recent noob to scripture? What one does first is read verses of interest and look to the concordance in the back for answers to your questions. If that generates subsequent questions, then a perusal of more specialized books like "Who's Who in the Bible" is in order.

Why did you even bother to post this question in the first place if you didn't have a basic idea of what you were reading? Also note that you cut and pasted the verses haphazardly in your posting which causes others to have to clean it up prior to investigating themselves which creates confusion. Bad boy bad.

@DudeistPriest

Oh i'm fore sure a n00b at scripture.
Sorry bud, but that sounded pretty antagonistic and i'm fairly sure you meant it to be so. No real reason for that, right?
Sorry if i'm wrong, obviously.

I couldn't agree with you more that i have a lot more learning and talking to do about the bible.
But i can't help but noticed you've decided that the right time to scold me about my experience is when you're faced with two very simple, [i]direct[/i] questions.

[b]Do you think after god having told him to go, Balaam should have waited for god to tell him a [i]second[/i] time?
Yes or no?

You believe it is appropriate to make god tell you to do something [i]twice[/i]?
Yes or no.[/b]

Come on, man. Show of good faith. I'm a n00b. Genuinely, no joke. So help me out.
Yes or no?