Can some Christian help explain this apparent example of god immediately contradicting himself? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Carazaa Just responding here to get this on my feed. I'm interested in what your response will be.

@Bushranger thank you. Well what do you think? Read it and let us know? This is great! Join a bible study and compare notes? I will get back to this later today or in the morning!

@Carazaa Well, from what I can make of it, God was angry with Balaam because he intended to do as Balak asked and curse Israel. After Balaam realised the power of God, he did as God asked and became His agent.

@Bushranger Yes, that's my understanding too.

@Bushranger @Pikachu
The king of Moab asked Balaam to go to the Israelites and put a curse on them. But then God spoke to him and told him not to put a curse because the Israelites were blessed people but to go and do exactly as told. God knows our motives, and Balaam was probably conflicted and scared so he had reservations, and probably was not intending to do exactly as God had said. But God will accomplish what he will accomplish, so he was a witness for God not a curse on the ISraelites.

@Carazaa I think Balaam fully intended to curse the Israelites, possibly thinking that God either wouldn't know, or wouldn't be able to stop him. The bit with the angel invisibly blocking the way seems to support this, while the donkey could see the angel and refused to pass it, giving Balaam 3 more opportunities to rethink his intentions, he resorts to beating it. It's only when God finally intervenes that Balaam realizes that he can't escape God's will, much like Jonah.

@Bushranger Great thinking!🙂 Sounds right to me!

@Carazaa But it doesn't say much for how God went about it. He was willing to kill Balaam if he continued with his original intent. Surely God could have given another warning that would have been sufficient to convince Balaam.

@Carazaa

I am not reading the bible to find fault. That's why i didn't say "look how the bible contradicts itself" I asked for an explanation.

[quote]. Are you reading the Bible to find fault[/quote]

[quote]and Balaam was probably conflicted and scared so he had reservations, and probably was not intending to do exactly as God had sai[/quote]

I don't know how you can draw that conclusion since he repeats to the king that he can only deliver the message that gods sends him and three times blesses the isrealites instead of cursing them.

Not to mention that none of that happens in between the time god tells Balaam to go with these people and then being angry that Balaam has done as he commanded.

I need a better explanation than that.

@Pikachu I think the intent of the story is to show that God is omniscient and was fully aware that Balaam intended to do as Balak asked, thus being angry with Balaam.

I have to admit that it's interesting to apply semantic analysis to the Bible.

@Bushranger

[quote]I think Balaam fully intended to curse the Israelites[/quote]

Why do you think that? He was a prophet of the lord and never says anything except that he can only pass on what god says. He left with the king's men on god's orders AND he refuses three times to curse the isrealites, blessing them instead.

I feel like we're missing part of the story.

@Bushranger

[quote]was fully aware that Balaam intended to do as Balak asked[/quote]

But Balaam said right from the beginning that he would ask god and could only do what god said. And his actions bore out those words.

How can we reasonably conclude from that, that he intended to disobey?

@Pikachu Without the original intent to disobey, the story makes even less sense. By trying to fool God, Balaam was demonstrating arrogance which was considered wrong.

@Bushranger

But i don't know how we can even suggest the idea that Balaam was trying to fool god. What verses can we point to, to support that hypothesis and what verses can we point to which counter-indicated the ones which suggest he only ever followed god's orders and intended to do what god said?

[quote]the story makes even less sens[/quote]

Well exactly. And since there is no evidence that i can see in Numbers which suggests that disobedience was ever a thought, the story doesn't make sense.

@Pikachu If God is truly omniscient, He would have known what Balaam was intending to do. The whole thing with the donkey and the invisible angel seems to point to that. If God didn't know that Balaam intended to betray the Israelites, why would He have stopped him? The 'near death experience' with the angel is enough to convince Balaam that he should obey God.

It doesn't make a lot of sense if taken as a factual story, however, as a moral tale, I think it's quite valid.

@Pikachu I also think it's similar to the tale of Jonah, who didn't want to do what God asked of him. By presenting a far less favourable option, God 'convinced' Jonah to obey him. Not something I see as being acceptable, but hey, if it gets your message across why not?

@Bushranger

[quote]He would have known what Balaam was intending to do.[/quote]

...which, far as any scripture tells us is what god wanted him to do.

I don't disagree that if Balaam was intending to disobey then god would be angry.
I disagree that there is any good evidence which suggests that this was indeed the case and in fact there is evidence which suggests that it was not the case.

[quote]But God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them. You are not to curse this people, for they are blessed.”
13[b]So Balaam got up the next morning and said to Balak’s princes, “Go back to your homeland, because the LORD has refused to let me go with you[/b].”[/quote]

[quote]But Balaam replied to the servants of Balak, “[b]If Balak were to give me his house full of silver and gold, I could not do anything small or great to go beyond the command of the LORD my God.[/b] 19So now, please stay here overnight as the others did, that I may find out what else the LORD has to tell me.”

20That night God came to Balaam and said, “Since these men have come to summon you, get up and go with them, but you must only do what I tell you.” 21[b]So Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey, and went with the princes of Moab[/b].[/quote]

So i just don't see what evidence we have to indicate that Balaam was anything but dutiful

...and yet in the very next passage, god's anger is kindled against Balaam.

@Pikachu Again, it's a test to show God's power and omniscience. God knows what Balaam wants to do, hey, he's going to get payed to curse these people so why just try and trick God. But, of course, God knows everything and sets up a situation to convince Balaam to behave. Given that this was written for people with a totally different mindset, one that believed in supernatural powers, etc., it didn't require a great deal of explanation. Just my opinion.

@Bushranger

[quote]he's going to get payed to curse these people so why just try and trick God.[/quote]

...you keep saying that but i just don't see what scriptural evidence allows you to make that claim...aside from the fact that god was angry.

He's going to get payed? He JUST said that even if he was offered a palace full of treasure he could only say what god wanted him to say.
And he later repeats that when malak tells him he will get no reward since he refused to curse the isrealits.

I'm sorry, i can't see on what foundation you're basing this hypothesis.

@Pikachu Again, if we compare it to the story of Jonah who openly refused to do what God wanted, in other words, we are fully aware that Jonah was going against God. With Balaam, we have a person who is not openly defying God, we don't really know what is in his mind, but God does.

Both stories have the same moral concept, God must be obeyed or there will be serious consequences. But the second one shows that God also knows what is in people's hearts and minds.

@Bushranger

[quote]we don't really know what is in his mind[/quote]

Agreed. But we have his words which are then corroborated by his actions.
Even with the promise of riches, he refuses to go with the moabites UNTIL the lord tells him to.

@Pikachu Yes, God has said he could go as a test. You're right, of course, there is no foundation for much that is said in the chapter, but isn't that consistent with a lot of the Bible? As I said previously, as a factual story, it makes absolutely no sense.

@Pikachu God was upset that he was going to do Israel harm, we know that. And we know that he didn't even want him to have company of the enemies of the Moabites since He said What are you doing? and he didn't want him to go at all. Then God said ok go. But apart from what Balaam said, we don't really know what was in his heart. Maybe God had really preferred him not to go or even spend a second with the Moabites but he let him but wasn't going to make it easy. I find that to be true in my life, if I want something God will give it to me but it wasn't the best for me, and it is not easy. I know a time I moved and had my life planned perfectly. But "You want to make God laugh, then tell Him your plans."

I think this story parallels Jonah's a lot, where Jonah runs from the Lord, and the Lord makes it hard on him. The lesson is maybe to ask God what is your plan for me. Its just easier.

What do you think then Pikachu, that it is a confusing story?

@Carazaa You do realise that I don't believe the story is true, don't you?

@Pikachu He was not a prophet of the Lord. He became a prophet because of Gods discipline.