What is the christian position on the characterization of Christianity wherein... [Spirituality & Religion]

...god sacrifices himself TO himself in order to create a loophole in the rules that he set?
I mean, why not just forgive? Why the demand for blood?
I'm sure someone must have explained this to me before but i don't remember.

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SpiritualMan · M

Simple. God is holy, requires perfection. We are by reason of the fall into sin as a human race imperfect. We can achieve a lot of goodness, but still fall short of God's perfect standards. In order for God to be both holy and merciful, He sent Christ to die in our place.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

How does sacrificing his son/aspect of himself make us any less imperfect?

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu The bible says all sin was put in Him at the cross, so therefore God's justice over sin was satisfied, clearing the way for God to give us mercy. It doesn't make us ACTUALLY perfect right away, until we get to heaven. God's mercy means He COUNTS us as perfect. When one has faith in Christ their inner spirit is regenerated and made PERFECT, but we still sin as Christians sometimes because our bodies and minds are still imperfect in this world, until we either die and go to heaven or the resurrection.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

So if he just wanted to count us as perfect, why bother making a loophole in his own rules?
He makes the rules. What's the point in the run around?
Is god [i]compelled[/i] to have blood sacrificed to him to the point where he'll sacrifice his own blood?

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu The bible says that the sin of all mankind was placed on Christ at the cross. A perfectly Holy God can't count us as perfect just for any reason, His justice demanded that someone pay the price. God's character binds him to do things a certain way. God CANNOT be evil literally. God CANNOT fall the same way Satan did, it is not even possible.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

[quote]God CANNOT be evil literally.[/quote]

It's not evil to forgive.

[quote] A perfectly Holy God can't count us as perfect just for any reason[/quote]

How is it more holy to demand a blood sacrifice of yourself than it is to just forgive?
Tell me what is holy about taking life.

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu Because Jesus laid down His life willingly for us. He also rose from the dead after the cross, so His death wasn't permanent. What is holy about taking a life? It is not a sin to kill in self-defense, it is not a sin to do capital punishment for very severe crimes, it is not a sin for a nation to defend itself. When the Ten Commandments say not to kill, it doesn't mean LITERALLY KILL in Hebrew, the Hebrew word LITERALLY means not to MURDER, not "not to kill".

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu God's character doesn't LET Him forgive without sin being dealt with one way or the other.

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu Oh you say it is evil not to forgive? God is sovereign, and has EVERY RIGHT to decide when to forgive and when not to. Now mercy is one of His attributes that is part of His character, so He DID go through with the plan of redemption through Christ.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

[quote]? It is not a sin to kill in self-defense, it is not a sin to do capital punishment for very severe crimes, it is not a sin for a nation to defend itself. When the Ten Commandments say not to kill, it doesn't mean LITERALLY KILL in Hebrew, the Hebrew word LITERALLY means not to MURDER, not "not to kill".[/quote]

Cool.
So now explain what is holy about taking life. Tell me what is holy about demanding blood.

[quote]God is sovereign, and has EVERY RIGHT to decide when to forgive and when not to[/quote]

Sure.
So decide to forgive instead of making a loophole since that was the intention anyway.

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu The fact that you don't understand WHY God required the blood of Christ to forgive us doesn't matter in the end, it is what is revealed in the bible. Even there, the bible says that God's thoughts and ways are WAY above hours, so just because we don't understand WHY something has to be a certain way, the fact that God says it should be good enough for us.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

[quote] the fact that God says it should be good enough for us.[/quote]

And there it is.
When it doesn't make sense, just whip out the ol "god works in mysterious ways" gambit.

SpiritualMan · M

@Pikachu There are statements in the bible that say that God's ways and thoughts are above ours, and may not make sense right away. I mean that Christ died to pay for the sins of mankind makes sense to ME. That you THINK it SHOULD be unnecessary doesn't mean it isn't true.

Pikachu

@SpiritualMan

Yeah i get ya, man. You're answer for why god would do a thing that appears pointlessly circuitous or strange or immoral is because his ways are not our ways.

That's your faith claim. It's cool.