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Pinkstarburst · 51-55, F
I don’t forgive a person for them. I do it for me. Without forgiving I cannot move forward.
LadyGrace · 70-79
It could, but We are only accountable for ourselves. It is not up to us to worry about that. They are accountable for their own ways. We reap what we sow.
Graylight · 51-55, F
Forgiveness is for the person doing the forgiving. It's cutting yourself free of the chain of resentment. It doesn't mean giving a free pass to the offender we're allowing them to ever commit the same wrong against you. Somebody can be forgiven but held accountable.
Even if people do sin more, that's beyond your control - you can't directly influence another's conduct... and they will ultimately stand before God on judgement day.
Equally, it doesn't mean that you should and must bear the wounds of the wrongs done to you for the rest of time, either. Sometimes, in forgiving others, there is an element of forgiving yourself involved, too - which can be a vital part of your growth as a person and within your faith.
Equally, it doesn't mean that you should and must bear the wounds of the wrongs done to you for the rest of time, either. Sometimes, in forgiving others, there is an element of forgiving yourself involved, too - which can be a vital part of your growth as a person and within your faith.
Boallods · 26-30, M
@HootyTheNightOwl I get that. But people may take our forgiveness not as an act of faith and godliness, but as a sign that the misdeed is nothing one should care about. Not only do they sin more thereby, but they get the wrong impression of faith, and God's will isn't heard.
@Boallods So, thereby, we should never forgive others based on how they "may" interpret our forgiveness???
Sit and think about how many times you have sinned against God, and how many times you have asked Him for His forgiveness... sometimes along the way, there will be some sins that you committed more than once. Did God turn His back on you, saying "Son, you promised me the first 50 times that you wouldn't commit this sin, already".
No, He forgave you again, anyway, in the hope that you really had learned your lesson, He left His flock to find you when you were lost to Him.
Others are on their own spiritual journey and we can't always force them to hear God's word and heed His will. There are times when we have to hold them up in prayer to God and trust that He will work His miracles in their lives as He does in our lives. Though their lives may take different paths, it doesn't mean that we should stop loving our brothers and sisters when we no longer see them in our lives. They are still sinning as we are - so keep praying that God gives them what they need to get through today and He may give them what they need to see the error of their ways.
Sit and think about how many times you have sinned against God, and how many times you have asked Him for His forgiveness... sometimes along the way, there will be some sins that you committed more than once. Did God turn His back on you, saying "Son, you promised me the first 50 times that you wouldn't commit this sin, already".
No, He forgave you again, anyway, in the hope that you really had learned your lesson, He left His flock to find you when you were lost to Him.
Others are on their own spiritual journey and we can't always force them to hear God's word and heed His will. There are times when we have to hold them up in prayer to God and trust that He will work His miracles in their lives as He does in our lives. Though their lives may take different paths, it doesn't mean that we should stop loving our brothers and sisters when we no longer see them in our lives. They are still sinning as we are - so keep praying that God gives them what they need to get through today and He may give them what they need to see the error of their ways.
Boallods · 26-30, M
@HootyTheNightOwl You misunderstood me. I'm not arguing against the virtue of forgiveness. Rather, I'm just wondering a) if I'm interpreting it right, and b) what are it's immediate effects.
If forgiving someone really would make him/her sin (at least in the short run), then I want to know that. I'm not questioning God's ways; I just want to know them better.
If forgiving someone really would make him/her sin (at least in the short run), then I want to know that. I'm not questioning God's ways; I just want to know them better.
Abrienda · 26-30, F
The last sentence you wrote is exactly the point and "unconditional" the key word. Christ does not forgive unconditionally. "Go...and sin no more" is a condition. If you ask forgiveness but plan to do it again or do it again because you didn't take your apology seriously then that is worse than the sin you falsely apologized for.
The Christianity we have now is the watery "feel god about yourself regardless" kind very far from the teachings of Christ. So no you must not forgive some unconditionally - the condition is not to repeat. If you repeat than it seems to me the original apology is made invalid.
Excellent post.
The Christianity we have now is the watery "feel god about yourself regardless" kind very far from the teachings of Christ. So no you must not forgive some unconditionally - the condition is not to repeat. If you repeat than it seems to me the original apology is made invalid.
Excellent post.
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Boallods · 26-30, M
Do you sin?
Needless to ask, of course you do.
Do you know anyone who does not sin?
Of course you don't. Because such people don't exist. They never did.
You're telling me, then, that noone is forgiven, noone enters the Kingdom of God, noone's gonna enter Heaven.
Needless to ask, of course you do.
Do you know anyone who does not sin?
Of course you don't. Because such people don't exist. They never did.
You're telling me, then, that noone is forgiven, noone enters the Kingdom of God, noone's gonna enter Heaven.
Abrienda · 26-30, F
@Boallods Please only quote what I say not what you want me to say so you can make you own argument.
Your first 3 questions are so fatuous I won't bother responding to.
I think if I say I confess to the sin of rape or murder or whatever, yet keep doing it and in fact plan to do it even while confessing it or know it is wrong while I am still doing it then I will be punished.
You can forgive anything but that does not save you from punishment. Admitting sin is not the LAST step but the first...it is then by your works you know if you are truly sorry or not.
So tell me...would a Communist prison guard in the Soviet Union been "forgiven" if he confessed to causing the deaths of thousands of innocent people then showed up for work tomorrow as usual and continued his work as before?
Like before, it is fine for you to argue what you believe Christ and the Bible says about something but since I am not Christ nor one of the 12, so I must make do with what is actually WRITTEN in the Bible about these matters.
I refer you especially to Galatians 6:7 which is exactly what I am saying to you on the subject.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Psalms 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Galatians 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Your first 3 questions are so fatuous I won't bother responding to.
I think if I say I confess to the sin of rape or murder or whatever, yet keep doing it and in fact plan to do it even while confessing it or know it is wrong while I am still doing it then I will be punished.
You can forgive anything but that does not save you from punishment. Admitting sin is not the LAST step but the first...it is then by your works you know if you are truly sorry or not.
So tell me...would a Communist prison guard in the Soviet Union been "forgiven" if he confessed to causing the deaths of thousands of innocent people then showed up for work tomorrow as usual and continued his work as before?
Like before, it is fine for you to argue what you believe Christ and the Bible says about something but since I am not Christ nor one of the 12, so I must make do with what is actually WRITTEN in the Bible about these matters.
I refer you especially to Galatians 6:7 which is exactly what I am saying to you on the subject.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Psalms 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Galatians 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Boallods · 26-30, M
"Please only quote what I say not what you want me to say so you can make you own argument." - I'm sorry if I misinterpreted or misunderstood what you said. But I don't think I did misinterpret you. Is ceasing to sin a condition for being saved? I take you to say yes. Now, does a person - besides Jesus - exist, who does not sin? No, for 1 John 1:8 says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Therefore, if not sinning is a condition for forgiveness, and if all people do sin, then none are saved. This is a simple syllogism, it's not quantum mechanics.
Maybe I misunderstood you with regards to the seriousness of sins. I'm not talking about killing thousands of people. In the example you used, sure, I agree with you, that prison guard couldn't've repented if he kept killing these people. Faith without works is dead. But not all sin is so great as killing thousands.
Looking at someone else's wife lustfully is a sin. Are you telling me that a young man struggling with sexual sin is condemned to hell because he lost control of his eyes for a second or two looking at some attractive young lady at the beach? The man knows it's sin, and hates the sin, yet his nature sometimes simply gets the better of him. He's sorry for the impure thoughts he's had, repents, and goes on. Are you telling me this [forgiveness] is only possible once? If it happens again, he's doomed to hell?
You seem to know the Bible well, so this disagreement of ours must be a fruit of a misunderstanding.
Therefore, if not sinning is a condition for forgiveness, and if all people do sin, then none are saved. This is a simple syllogism, it's not quantum mechanics.
Maybe I misunderstood you with regards to the seriousness of sins. I'm not talking about killing thousands of people. In the example you used, sure, I agree with you, that prison guard couldn't've repented if he kept killing these people. Faith without works is dead. But not all sin is so great as killing thousands.
Looking at someone else's wife lustfully is a sin. Are you telling me that a young man struggling with sexual sin is condemned to hell because he lost control of his eyes for a second or two looking at some attractive young lady at the beach? The man knows it's sin, and hates the sin, yet his nature sometimes simply gets the better of him. He's sorry for the impure thoughts he's had, repents, and goes on. Are you telling me this [forgiveness] is only possible once? If it happens again, he's doomed to hell?
You seem to know the Bible well, so this disagreement of ours must be a fruit of a misunderstanding.
SW-User
I’m petitioning for the guillotine to make a comeback.
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP
@SW-User i second this motion.
Abrienda · 26-30, F
@SW-User Where can I sign?
That is a deep question. I think in some cases it can humble a person enough not to do it again. But a person character is also hard to change. And when you talk about some things like drug use you may have biology against you too. So my opinion is 50/50.
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
I agree with @Pinkstarburst. Plus I’m sure that the person you’re forgiving will feel less depressed (if they’re remorseful) and you can feel better too. It all good. Right?
But I’m curious, can you forgive the person for doing you wrong and be completely reconciled?
But I’m curious, can you forgive the person for doing you wrong and be completely reconciled?
CopperCicada · M
The spiritual commandment is to forgive without exception.
Riptideocean86 · F
Yeah pretty hard to depending on what it is...
SW-User
Glad we are not in the same cynical boat we where predisposes how one should be judged, and then asks are we in the wrong for doing so? Life does go on if you let it
TheOneyouwerewarnedabout · 46-50, MVIP
fuck yeah.. throw the book at them..
This message was deleted by its author.
SW-User
@Boallods i will never read the bible.
LadyGrace · 70-79
Which is not a requirement when it comes to salvation. Many a people in foreign places have been saved without reading the Bible. They did as me and Boallods did....just talked to Jesus and asked Him to forgive us our sins and be our personal Savior. @SW-User
LadyGrace · 70-79
Further...You don’t have to take our word for it. You can search it out for yourself, if you’re really interested. Just beware of false teachers. It would be better to pray and ask God to reveal Himself to you. Of course it only makes sense that if you want to know God, it’s important to read His Word. But that’s up to you.
@SW-User
@SW-User