How can anyone think that this beautiful world isn't created by God? [Spirituality & Religion]

@PlumBerries ✌

@PlumBerries

You would think that he'd want to save as many of these beings he loves as possible, right?

So why not give unequivocal evidence?

@PlumBerries Exactly! Perfect answer

@PlumBerries Ok!

@Pikachu He did save the whole world when He came down and took all our sins on his shoulders!

@Carazaa

Well i'm not saved yet so it seems like he could have done a better job.

@Pikachu Maybe if you didn't doubt and think just because He isn't standing right in your room, he must not exist!

@Carazaa

But i do doubt. And so do millions of others.
So...evidently he could have done a better job.

@Pikachu I don't think millions do, that's an exaduration!

@Carazaa


Well then i've got some bad news for you, carazaa.

A quick google will confirm that what i've said is true.
You'll find the first result is from wikipedia showing that 3% of americans are atheist. That's about 10 million people right there in only one country who are doubting. That's not even counting the agnostics or the people who believe in different gods.

So i'm sticking by what i said. Were he real, i think god could have done a much more convincing job of it.

@Pikachu You are blaming God for your lack of faith. If there are millions of doubters, that is not Gods fault. They just aren't looking at the evidence, the world, the Bible, and Jesus. And another evidence is people lives that are changed because of their changed hearts. And also all the miracles. I don't think people will ever be convinced because they don't want a God. They are happier without a God!

@Carazaa

@Carazaa


Well yes and no. On the one hand, i'm not blaming god because i don't think any such being exists.
On the other hypothetical hand, yeah, i am blaming god.
Think about it: When something goes wrong in the workplace, on who's shoulders does the responsibility ultimately lay? That's right, the boss.
I'm just saying if a truly omnipotent being loved us and wanted as many of us as divinely possible to believe he was real so that we could love him and be saved...he could have done much better than an ancient book of mythology which lacks corroboration and is highly contested.


But that's not true, carazaa. And it's important to me that you understand that.
We're looking at the same evidence that you are:
We're looking at the world and finding that natural processes are sufficient to account for it.
We're looking at the bible and we're seeing a book of man-made mythology and all the biases, emneties and failings that, that entails.
We're looking at jesus and seeing no corroboration of his divinity.

All us atheists are looking at the evidence, carazaa. We're just not convinced by it the way you are.


But here's the thing: people's lives are changed when they join islam or buddhism or scientology or teal swan's classes.
My point being that people can benefit from a religion without the precepts of that religion being true.
And you'll agree to that point because the fact is that while you consider every other religion to be false, people still benefit from them.


Miracles are anecdotes. We remember the hits and we forget the misses.
If one person experiences a coincidence then that can be interpreted as a miracle.
That's my view, anyway.
As for not wanting to believe in a god, i think that's an easy statement to make but falls apart upon examination and discussion.
Think about it: why wouldn't a person want to think that someone all-powerful loved them and was looking out for them? Why wouldn't a person want to believe that after death, life goes on and they would see their loved ones again? Why wouldn't a person want to think that everything was working out for the best?
Nah.
If i really believed that then i would certainly commit to living my life the way my god wanted.
It's not that we don'twant to believe carazaa. It's just that we don't.

@SW-User That's why we call it faith!

@Pikachu

1. You blame the boss when things go wrong. Well, you may do that but that's not going to get you raises. I am very hard on myself. There is always something I can do better, and everything isn't the bosses fault. I think if employees are rebellious, or they have a lazy mindset they will undermined the boss and then its the employees fault not the boss's fault if there is low production or a problem in the company. Equally the problem is not God, but rebellious people who are the problem in the world. See we don't like authority. That is the real problem in the world. We like to do whatever we want. Don't tell me what to do. I can be a girl, or a boy, or nothing at all. I can do whatever I want. Don't tell me I can't. But God did not make gender the same. He made them equal but not the same. Men can't have kids naturally without medical intervention. It's a fact. Men are stronger, its a fact. I like the world God made, I accept it, it's exciting. But we are messing it up. We have a greedy, selfish, self serving world now so people don't know who they are. They are depressed. Suicide is increasing.

You are saying God could have done a better job than writing the Bible and sending His son to save us from our sins? Really? Do you know that it had to be just one book. It can't be more. Why? Because otherwise we wouldn't know the truth. Satan would sneak in a book too and we wouldn't know it. Jesus said in the last book in Revelations. This is it! no more, so don't add any other book. God is a Spirit, He is NOT visiting people except in the form of Holy spirit now a days. If you see a vision, or hear a voice, it is either Satan or it is mental illness. God is counting on His people to spread the word. It's His Salvation program, because he wants us to love and care for people. He puts it on our shoulders as a responsibility.

2. You are looking at all the things that Christians see, but not with spiritual eyes. There was a miracle when God saved me. In one day my heart was changed, and I understood my own sin. The first thing that happens when we are born again is we see our shame and Gods Holiness. He is so big, and so Holy. He doesn't have to save us, but He does if we believe.

Mark 13:31

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.


3. Yes people change for all kinds of reasons. But a born again Christian has God living in them, The Holy Spirit, and they have all the same traits, they are,

the fruits of the Spirit.
LOVE
JOY
PEACE
PATIENCE
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROLL

4. Miracles are not real miracles? Are you kidding? When I was abandoned by my husband and prayed and tithed a lady knocked on my door and gave me $22,000, when I spun around 3 times on the freeway in rush traffic and my car stopped less than an inch parallel to the cement divider, when I was diagnosed with leukemia and did not go back to the doctors but prayed and was well a year after, when I couldn't pay my office rent and I prayed and 10 minutes before the rent was due a man gave me $5000, these are not coincidents, they are miracles! God loves me, because I gave my life to Him. I give Him my first of everything. I give him my kids, my family, my life and he takes care of me.

"I will be a husband to the husbandless and a Father to the fatherless."

@Carazaa


You misunderstand. You don't blame the boss but the responsibility falls at the bosses feet because he's in charge.


Yes. That's exactly what i'm saying because there are way too many people who aren't even sure the events of the book happened.
Not because they're stupid or selfish or hate authority but because it's just not convincing.
Are you telling me god could not have done better than an old book a couple thousand years ago?
Maybe i have more confidence in your god than you do😉


I'm not sure what looking with spiritual eyes means but as long as you acknowledge that the reason we don't believe is NOT because we're not looking at your evidence.

So how do you look with spiritual eyes and how does this account for people who used to believe and then stopped believing? Did they look with spiritual ayes and then stop looking?


Well that's certainly your faith claim, yes.
But remember: you used the fact that people's lives are changed by christianity as evidence that it is the truth.
Obviously this cannot be considered evidence for the truth of your religion if it can be applied to any religion.



I understand why such things would be convincing to you, carazaa.
But to me they're just coincidences.
I'm not trying to take those experiences away from you, just don't expect me to take them as miraculous interventions by god.

I try hard to not blame I just try to do my part. Maybe that's your problem, that you are critical of God. We have to understand that God sees the total picture, we don't. It is illogical to blame God when we don't know everything. It's all about love. He has given us the will to love or not. We have chosen not to love him and all people, and the consequences is death for all of us. Why? because God doesn't tolerate any sinning at all. If you have sinned even one time you die eternally. Its like gravity and jumping off a high building. It is a spiritual law. If a people reject Him he will not hear their prayers and they will self-destruct and go down. We see this in many cultures who have rejected Christianity.


The Bible is the only book where we have God telling us the story of human history from beginning to end. And how to live. it is a hard read. All the stories of animal sacrifices are symbols and pointing to Jesus perfect sacrifice for our sin. It is a book that will make you successful in all that you do God promises. It is worth reading and the most read book throughout history for a good reason. God wants your faith, not searching God out with doubting eyes. Other religions do not bring prosperity, nope!

If we are born again , God lives in us and we see things totally from Gods viewpoint. We are at odds with the world point of view on things. It is a transformation that is undeniable. We are odd ducks! God says "You are not of this world, you are set apart" The real evidence is really in the transformation in people. No other religion makes such transformations for life, evidenced by loving people and volunteering wherever we are needed. Other religions do change people but does not have the same effect worldwide for good! People want to hate, persecute, and kill us so yes there has been wars for good reason. Satan is at war to kill people.


You can think that the miracles of God are coincident, so be it. But I prefer to have faith in God and have his miracles continue. Because they won't happen if we don't have faith. Jesus own disciples asked "how can you cast out demons but we can't," and Jesus said If you have faith like a mustard seed you can remove mountains. So I have faith, and I see miracles every day. I like it that way. You can too if you repent of all your sins, and ask God to increase your faith, and follow Jesus. But most people don't want to.

"Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life and few are they that find it" Matt 7:14

@Carazaa


Nah. My "problem" is that i don't think there's good evidence showing that such a being existts.
I'm critical of the christian god because (no offense) i think he's a monstrous sociopath and abuser.

I don't buy this line about god not showing us unequivocally that he exists because he wants us to have free will to love him.

Apologies if you answered this, but if you did then i didn't get it:

How do you look with spiritual eyes and how does this account for people who used to believe and then stopped believing? Did they look with spiritual ayes and then stop looking?

@Pikachu I am sorry that I didn't address why some don't have faith here (I get a million phone calls and distractions) But I thought I did cover that before, Jesus explained all that in the Parable of the Sower. Did you read the parable of the sower? Basically some never was on the firtile ground. They were never saved at all.

@Carazaa

Yes i'm familiar with that explanation of why someone stops following the religion.
My question is specifically how does one view the evidence with "spiritual eyes"?
Secondly, i'm interested to know what this mean for people who once believed?
Did they not view the evidence with spiritual eyes and so accepted it where i reject it?

@Pikachu People call themselves "Christian" I think for many reasons.
Some might want to be president, some might be eager to please a mate, some might want to go to the singles group at church and wont get a date if they aren't Christian, some might be excited about miracles and signs more than following Jesus, they think praying in Jesus name will get them rich, they might be in the process of following God but not fully committed and then something happens like a child dies or they are in an accident and instead of trusting God to make something beautiful out of their life they might be angry with him, they might not ever have repented, they might love their sin and feel God wont love them. They get excited about something new that feels good but might not want to give up their sinful lifestyle. I don't know but God says it has a lot to do with sinning. I am a super sinner, definitely done things I regret, but its just not worth it. I want His blessings. And I want to make him happy more than myself.

We live for a very short time and then we face God, I believe. I really am so scared for you when you say things like that "God is a monstrous sociopath" Well He is not, He is the opposite knowing the heart of man and will kill because of His justice. He fought so hard for the Jews who were slaves. He helped them in battle. You don't know how wicked murderous the people were who he killed. They sacrificed babies to BAAL!

@CarazaaAnd I can't explain spiritual eyes more than that we see things from Gods view. Its like we have our eyes opened. We see ourselves in a different light and Gods Glory.