You are ambiguous about whether, by discipline, you mean corporal punishment. The evidence on the negative effects of corporal punishment are pretty clear.
World Health Org, among others, has studied corporal punishment extensively.
* Evidence shows corporal punishment increases children’s behavioural problems over time and has no positive outcomes.
* All corporal punishment, however mild or light, carries an inbuilt risk of escalation. Studies suggest that parents who used corporal punishment are at heightened risk of perpetrating severe maltreatment.
* Corporal punishment is linked to a range of negative outcomes for children across countries and cultures, including physical and mental ill-health, impaired cognitive and socio-emotional development, poor educational outcomes, increased aggression and perpetration of violence.
MORE HARM THAN GOOD: A SUMMARY OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ON THE INTENDED AND UNINTENDED EFFECTS OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ON CHILDREN
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8386132/
Also see American Academy of Pediatrics:
Aversive disciplinary strategies, including all forms of corporal punishment and yelling at or shaming children, are minimally effective in the short-term and not effective in the long-term. With new evidence, researchers link corporal punishment to an increased risk of negative behavioral, cognitive, psychosocial, and emotional outcomes for children.
Often times, what most of us grew up with was abuse when you look at it fairly.
No child deserves to be hit, either with your hand or some sort of implement, hard enough that you can see outlines of whatever you struck them with for up to two weeks after your attack. What are they learning at this point??? "Do as I say, or I'm going to assault you". If you walk up to an adult and say "Get out of my seat" and they say "No", then you slap them... would you not reasonably expect the police to ask you "Why did you slap him/her???"... if so, why is it acceptable to do something to a CHILD that you know you can't do to another adult???
If your child has no friends and hates being outside - what do you gain from forcing them to spend their time "grounded outside??? All you're doing is reinforcing the fact that they have nothing to do and not even anyone to talk to while they are sat out there by themselves. For children who go through life with undiagnosed autism, this can be brutal because they've already had to mask at school all day - and, now, you're going to force them to spend even longer going without stimming and regulation - because they didn't make their bed before school this morning??? It physically hurts as much as being struck and they don't know that they have autism.
When your teaching moment is more about the actual method of punishment rather than the lesson you're trying to teach, then you've lost the whole point of "discipline". You're no longer teaching your child what happens if I hit my brother/sister.
@HootyTheNightOwl although you make interesting points, you are equating discipline to abuse - which is the point I was making. Would you consider giving ‘quiet time’ to a toddler having a tantrum over another child’s toy abusive? It’s still discipline, but causes no harm. True discipline is proportional to the behaviour and respects the child’s needs and wellbeing. It should never cause harm, but it should show that there are consequences to our actions. Thank you though, you have given food for thought.
@Fizzle Yes, I am equating discipline to abuse... because, if you look back over your generation and the one before... child discipline has changed drastically in just that short time.
You are about the same sort of age as me, so, if you talk to your own parents, they'll likely tell you stories about being sent to the headmaster's office to be caned for not listening in class - yet, by the time you reached school age, caning had been abolished in most schools.
The problem is that, not many parents keep up with the law in relation to discipline - then, when you point out "You can't hit your child like that anymore", they answer back "My parents did it to me - and it did me no harm".
As far as being hit as "Discipline" goes... I was hit to the extent where I was dissociating and screaming out on the streets and random men were stepping in to save me from being hit again as well as bringing me back from a dissociated state. What can an 8 year old ever do that is bad enough to warrant "discipline" so extreme that they learn to dissociate for the rest of their lives just to navigate a world filled with blows raining down on their little body and trying to hide the bruises their parents gave them over the weekend from the teachers as they change for PE on Wednesday afternoon???
Well, at one time, we used to chop thieves' hands off... does that make it okay??? I mean, they learned not to steal, right or did they stop stealing because they had no hands to steal anything with???
@HootyTheNightOwl when I was at school corporal punishment was still permitted, and I was slippered by the headmaster. I was also occasionally smacked at home for poor behaviour. In my case, the punishment was proportional, and I did learn from my mistakes. Although physical punishment was banned in UK state schools in 1997, it is not illegal for parents to use reasonable (keyword) physical punishment in England and N.Ireland.
What happened to you was not discipline, that was unwarranted vile abuse cloaked as “discipline”. I’m sincerely sorry that happened to you, what you suffered is absolutely unjustifiable.
In my country, physical violence and humiliation have not been a part of our judicial system for decades. We reinforce laws and norms through peaceful, rational argument, and are stronger for it. "Discipline" became child abuse when some folk thought it was the prerogative of parents to continue beating children.
Look at the profiles and their forums. They're spanking pedo ones. Theres a difference between normal discipline and then pedo discipline masking as being a parent
@Fizzle I think if you look at the posters who primarily list discipline, punishment, corporal punishment, etc, among their forums (or fora, if I want to be pedantic), you will find they overwhelmingly either have a spanking fetish or think that discipline is limited to severe hairbrush wielding or caning.
@Fizzle The way I see it, if you're ok with beating on your kid when he messes up, you should be ok with your boss slapping you around when you mess up at work.
@bijouxbroussard thank you, I agree. Disciplining children should not involve inflicting harm. My concern is that any parent who mentions correcting a child’s behaviour, even if they don’t say how gets admonished.
It comes from parents who are cruel, going far beyond what should be necessary and sometimes bragging about it, hiding behind various euphemisms like "loving discipline" and "traditional values". And of course from adults whose own childhood was blighted by cruelty.
The word is also used in various erotic contexts between consenting adults, and in dubious "traditional" relationships based on one spouse dominating the other - without necessarily using violence.The legal term for offences under that definition, where the victim has never consented to it, is "coercive and controlling behaviour", and such behaviour is usually mental, social and financial.
So the word "discipline" has acquired a rather sinister reputation, hence anyone using it being regarded with suspicion.
The problem is not that of inculcating respect (respect, not fear!) and good behaviour; but of dark associations with warping such teaching into mere power-play.
The word "discipline" really means following something taught- hopefully that something being constructive not destructive to the disciple.
@ArishMell thank you for such a thoughtful and eloquent reply. What you say makes complete sense. The word discipline has become a catch all for questionable behaviour. The true meaning of the word has become corrupted.
Focusing on discipline in a place like this generally means spanking and getting off on that. It’s not looked at as a form or responsible parenting. If you’re looking for people like that here, this is not the place. Most of those into spanking here I’ve seen come across as creepy and pedo like.
TBH, I think it's because the media and political pundits have always used accusations of child abuse for political purposes. It didn't start with Qanon or MAGA. This was a major part of the Satanic Panic too. This obsession with accusing people of abusing children seeped into society as a whole. So now if it gets out that a parent takes discipline seriously, people start suspecting abuse.
@BohoBabe An interesting perspective that I’d not considered before. I do agree the media has played a role in villainising traditional parenting styles. Thank you for giving me something to ponder 🤔
discipline /ˈdisəplən/ Discipline is the practice of training people to obey rules or standards of behavior, and using punishment to correct disobedience.
I'd say it's more of a power dynamic. And those suck, that's what people often abuse.
I gently corrected my son and he's a really good kid. He didn't have to obey me, that sounds disgusting. I paid enough attention to him he wanted to work together. I didn't need discipline.
