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A transgender thought experiment

Both of my dogs are mutts, and as anyone with any interest in dogs can attest to, you learn to look at them and categorize different features and body parts under their respective breeds. It's basically like looking at a Frankenstein experiment.

My male dog has a husky tail and coat but a mastiff head and body. My little girl has a pit bull chest but a beagles face and snout. I could go on in detail, but the point remains that they are clearly an amalgamation of their progenitors.

Likewise, people can look at someone's child and say that they have their mother's hair or their father's jaw or so on and so forth. In most cases, people look like a roughly even combination of both. In some cases, people inherited far more of their looks from one parent than the other. It's not always 50/50.

Regardless of how genetic material is ultimately distributed, it is always a mix of genes from both the mother and the father. This includes the genes that form our brains, the basis for our behaviors and beliefs and everything that constitutes our sense of identity.

The literature regarding human neurology comes to the fairly unanimous conclusion that there are differences in structure between the male and female brains. A conclusion people can reach rather intuitively just by talking to and observing enough men and women to realize that there are some obvious differences between the sexes.

But, what if the genes that formed a person's brain came more from one parent than another? And what if those same genes differed from the ones governing their anatomy?

What would you call a male-bodied person had a female-leaning brain, or vice versa?

If I were to take a hamburger, for instance, and I keep the outside the same - buns, toppings, condiments - but removed the quintessential hamburger patty and substituted a T-bone steak, would this creation still be called a hamburger?

Or to give another example, assume I take the engine out of a Toyota and put it inside of a Lamborghini, and assume it could still run, if I sold it as a Lamborghini would that be an inevitable false advertisement lawsuit?

One could argue that beef is beef and that it doesn't matter what's inside because it's the outside that matters. Or that the little logo on the hood tells you everything you need to know about the car in question.

I don't have a definitive answer here. The research on transgender brains is so far inconclusive. I just thought it was worth considering that maybe it would be reckless, among other things, to dismiss trans people without resolving questions like these
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HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
A child cannot obtain more genes from one psrt than the other. It's 50/50 and any statement to the contrary is absurd.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley It's about genes that get activated, not which genes are received. There are many instances where a body will prefer one parent's genetics over the other, including cells active in brain development.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
That's not what your post says. And you are talking about phenotype vs genotype
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley I talk about both in different parts of the post, not in exact scientific terms, but the crux of the argument is about genotypic traits
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Then you are wrong if you are focusing on genotypes.

I have a degree in Biology.

Your accounting degree won't help you here.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley It's my understanding that gene expression is based on the genotype. Eventually that becomes a person's phenotype. It's all connected, so I guess maybe I wasn't focusing on just genotypes
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Phenotypes are based on genotypes and environmental factors
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Nowhere am I disputing that
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
You were not clear about that. But genotype is 50/50
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley That's false. Males inherit more genes from their mother than their father. That's not even including mitochondrial DNA. It's might be close, but it's not 50/50.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Nonsense
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley For you, perhaps. People with at least a modicum of intelligence just call it science
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Since I have a degree in biology perhaps you can explain it to me. Having studied genetics and mammalian reproduction i can probably follow your explanation.

Are you referring to the X vs Y chromosome or something else?
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Yeah and you probably got your degree before the human genome was ever sequenced. You seem to have a Mendelian understanding of genetics. Your logic might work for pea plants but it doesn't work for humans.

A genotype isn't going to be 50/50 because males inherit more genetic material from their mothers due to the Y chromosome being smaller. Maybe they have an even amount of chromosomal pairs, but that's not what a genotype is
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
I knew that's where you were going. No one actually speaks about the fact that the X chromosome having more genes than the Y chromosome means that in males, they get a bigger contribution from their mother. Sure, technically this is correct but overall meiosis is 50/50.

The fact that the X chromosome has more genes was known long ago given the relative size of the sex chromosomes.

What's more important is the presence or absence of testosterone in ontogeny.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Right, but you were referencing the genotype, not meiosis. You're drifting off into territory that has no material relevance to the argument
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
No, I'm focusing on materiality
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Ok so then what relevance does meiosis have to gene activation?
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
None as far as I know
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley So then you are in fact straying away from the topic by making points that have no material relevance to the argument. Not sure why you'd chose to bring up meiosis knowing it has nothing to do with the conversation
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Merely to to introduce the 50/50 nature of genotype.

You introduce different concepts
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Except that genotype isn't 50/50 given that people get more genes from their mother.

Maybe you could argue that it's close enough to evenly split, or that chromosomal pairs are 50/50 (with the exception of trisomy or monosomy), but it's factually untrue to claim that genotype is 50/50
HoraceGreenley · 61-69, M
@TinyViolins
Fine. And mitochondrial DNA only comes from the mother.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@HoraceGreenley Thanks for another useless piece of information, Horace